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Old 07-06-2018, 02:02 AM   #241 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Four Stroker View Post
I gave up on eBay and bought the Molex service grade crimper.

https://www.digikey.com/products/en?...ervice%20grade

Ask Glenn how many crimpers he bought and how many he actually uses. Probably make $130 look good. But if you can personally inspect crimpers there is nothing better than a Berg.
When you say nothing is better than a "Berg". Are you referring to using a Berg with Molex SL terminals? Or using a Berg with Amphenol terminals?

I'm going to be going with Molex SL terminals/housings.
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Old 07-06-2018, 02:04 AM   #242 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
There is a less expensive service grade tool from Molex that crimps SL that costs around $125. The difference is that it's a somewhat simpler design (it does have a terminal locator) and it uses a double D style crimp on the insulation rather than an overlap crimp. SL terminals are designed to be crimped either way (the insulation crimp wings on SL terminals are straight not angled like Mini-PV ) though the overlap style insulation crimp is considered superior.
Yes thanks. For some reason Molex doesn't list that cheaper "service grade" crimper in their SL terminal pages. They just list the $300 version as the "appropriate" crimper for SL terminals. Though it looks like there isn't any 3rd party crimpers for the SL terminals anywhere.

Though Molex makes it sound like their "service grade" crimper is junk or something. They don't even really recommend it, they just say to get the $300 version instead.

Let's say the $300 crimper is "100%" in crimp quality, where would you put that $125 Service Grade crimper at? 90%, 80%, 50%?

Though I'd say the crimp on the metal strands is the most important since you need not just strength but also circuit integrity.
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:15 AM   #243 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Emmett View Post
Does anyone know why this housing is so long? What are those extra set of square holes for at the end of the plug? Can only think it may be a multi-use type housing or something. Molex doesn't seem to give any instructions that I can find.
The extra length is from the shroud. It's the equivalent of the shrouded connector with male pins that we use for wire to wire connections in RC stuff. These shrouded Mini-PV type connectors appear to be something specific to RC and are NOT part of the Mini-PV standard which is probably why they use a clip-on shroud. With the Molex SL connectors, the wire to wire male housing is a stock part.



This is the female SL housing (non latched version)






They do not seem to make non latched male housings, this may be because it is expected that for wire to wire connections you would use a latch.
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:22 AM   #244 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Emmett View Post
Yes thanks. For some reason Molex doesn't list that cheaper "service grade" crimper in their SL terminal pages. They just list the $300 version as the "appropriate" crimper for SL terminals. Though it looks like there isn't any 3rd party crimpers for the SL terminals anywhere.

Though Molex makes it sound like their "service grade" crimper is junk or something. They don't even really recommend it, they just say to get the $300 version instead.

Let's say the $300 crimper is "100%" in crimp quality, where would you put that $125 Service Grade crimper at? 90%, 80%, 50%?

Though I'd say the crimp on the metal strands is the most important since you need not just strength but also circuit integrity.

I dunno I haven't used Molex SL terminals. From the pics posted here I'd say it appears to do a good job. Seems the biggest difference is cosmetic i.e. the terminal crimps don't come out all pretty and shiny.
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:41 AM   #245 (permalink)
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Thanks. Will probably end up getting that crimper. For some reason Molex doesn't list that crimper under their SL terminals on their website page for some reason. They only list that $300 crimper under SL terminals, and the $300 SL crimper is the only one they recommend for SL terminals.

Are you using that Service Grade Molex crimper? Apparently it doesn't do as good of a job compared to the $300 crimper. But don't know if that is something like it does a 95% as good a job or a 50% as good of a job.

Their website is a bit confusing and it does take a while to figure things out.

I'm using 638118700.

The service grade crimper is fine. As mentioned several times, Four Stroker has this crimp tool and he is very knowledgeable on the subject.
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:38 AM   #246 (permalink)
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Some boards have multiple rows of 0.100" headers (like our RX bus). The non-latched shells are designed to plug into a 2D block of pins side by side AND end to end. The 3 pin SL non-latched connector shell is therefore slightly less than 0.300" wide and 0.100" thick. The latched shells are for wire to wire connections as Atomic said above.

There is a lot of prototype and small run equipment that still uses 0.100" headers for board to board connections, sensors, power, etc. Not all boards plug into a card cage / bus.
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:50 AM   #247 (permalink)
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You guys are really into finding the perfect connection. What do companies like Yamaha use on their fazer? Sometimes the right solution is already out there in use. I mean we're talking a 100,000$ rc helicopter.



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Old 07-07-2018, 04:20 AM   #248 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mattbeau View Post
You guys are really into finding the perfect connection. What do companies like Yamaha use on their fazer? Sometimes the right solution is already out there in use. I mean we're talking a 100,000$ rc helicopter.

As I recall it uses linear actuators with universal joints at the swash end and 2D hinge joints at the bottom so mechanicly it's more like a scaled down full scale helicopter than a scaled up RC helicopter. The tail is driven by a belt but the belt is driven by a separate vertically oriented pulley directly on the engine inline with the boom so the tail belt does not need to be twisted. It's pretty obvious that when they designed this thing they were not looking at RC helis at all but rather full scale ones and adapting/simplifying it.
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Old 07-07-2018, 11:37 AM   #249 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
As I recall it uses linear actuators with universal joints at the swash end and 2D hinge joints at the bottom so mechanicly it's more like a scaled down full scale helicopter than a scaled up RC helicopter. The tail is driven by a belt but the belt is driven by a separate vertically oriented pulley directly on the engine inline with the boom so the tail belt does not need to be twisted. It's pretty obvious that when they designed this thing they were not looking at RC helis at all but rather full scale ones and adapting/simplifying it.
But what do they use to connect the control board to the linier actuator? Essentially the difference between the actuator and servo is that the control board is external on the actuator.

And for those following.

Comparing Linear Servos & Linear Actuators - with Kyle and Jason (11 min 30 sec)




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Old 07-07-2018, 01:07 PM   #250 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Four Stroker View Post
Raptorapture, That looks much better. I believe that tinned wire is better since I have some 50 year old crimps that were barrel crimps over tinned wire that are still perfect - Kraft, RS, Bonner, ITT-centilock (common in 70's).
Really curious why only the ground is tinned. Any thoughts?
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Old 07-07-2018, 02:28 PM   #251 (permalink)
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I have seen this before. I think it is for easy identification. Some of Futaba's wire is like that. On the other hand, long long ago there was this thing called black wire disease. The black wire only in a three conductor cable would corrode and turn black. There were a lot of complete BS reasons given. We are talking about 40 years ago when the Japanese started making RC equipment for earnest. They used bare copper wire crimped with more or less the current type of connectors. I had a fist full of servo plugs that had never been used, connected, soldered that had this black wire disease. IN PARTICULAR they had never had current run through them.

My conclusion is that whatever turns the insulation black corrodes copper. Tinning the black wire only would solve this. They are too cheap to tin all of the conductors ? All RC wire before Japan entered the market was tinned.
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Old 07-10-2018, 05:32 PM   #252 (permalink)
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Well I retested everything including the low contact force or regular female pins and the high contact force version. I ran 3 Amps through each connector pair. So the voltage drop represents the connector pins mating AND two crimps. I first compute the voltage drop of wire without the connector - 35 mm in this case and subtract that out. This gives the insertion loss - at 3 Amps. The results are:

1) 35 mm of AWG 22 = 5 millivolts which agrees with this chart:

https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

2) Low Contact Force Molex SL= 18 millivolts

3) High Contact Force Molex SL= 18 millivolts

4) Venerable Deans 3-pin = 5 millivolts - ZERO INSERTION LOSS

5) Low Contact Force with the crimps soldered = 18 millivolts. The crimp is as good as soldering! Just a test.

So for the Molex Pin Pairs mating and two crimps the resistance is (18-5)/3 or < 5 milliohms. The testing of different pins was very consistent.

Example: A servo draws 10 Amps (momentarily). 0.005 ohms x 10 amps x 2 pins = 0.1 volts drop due to the connector alone. Another calculation gives that the pin pair insertion loss is about the same as an additional 10 cm of AWG 22 wire.

These are the high contact force pins with 30 micron gold:

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...570-ND/1118776

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...567-ND/1118775

Test equipment was a very old HP lab power supply and a Fluke meter.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:34 PM   #253 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Four Stroker View Post
Well I retested everything including the low contact force or regular female pins and the high contact force version. I ran 3 Amps through each connector pair. So the voltage drop represents the connector pins mating AND two crimps. I first compute the voltage drop of wire without the connector - 35 mm in this case and subtract that out. This gives the insertion loss - at 3 Amps. The results are:

1) 35 mm of AWG 22 = 5 millivolts which agrees with this chart:

https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

2) Low Contact Force Molex SL= 18 millivolts

3) High Contact Force Molex SL= 18 millivolts

4) Venerable Deans 3-pin = 5 millivolts - ZERO INSERTION LOSS

5) Low Contact Force with the crimps soldered = 18 millivolts. The crimp is as good as soldering! Just a test.

So for the Molex Pin Pairs mating and two crimps the resistance is (18-5)/3 or < 5 milliohms. The testing of different pins was very consistent.

Example: A servo draws 10 Amps (momentarily). 0.005 ohms x 10 amps x 2 pins = 0.1 volts drop due to the connector alone. Another calculation gives that the pin pair insertion loss is about the same as an additional 10 cm of AWG 22 wire.

These are the high contact force pins with 30 micron gold:

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...570-ND/1118776

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...567-ND/1118775

Test equipment was a very old HP lab power supply and a Fluke meter.

Great job! Thanks for testing these and sharing the results.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:32 AM   #254 (permalink)
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Older discontinued Molex SL crimper you can keep an eye out for on Ebay:


https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...9917-ND/210295


Manual here:


https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%2...208%20Spec.pdf



Though it looks like it wouldn't, it does have a terminal locator.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:49 PM   #255 (permalink)
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I have decided that I like this female pin better:

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...564-ND/1118774

The Molex high contact force works fine with 0.025" square pins as on a RX and with Molex male pins BUT did not work well with some JR and Futaba male pins. The pin dimension is critical. The above pin is more forgiving with the box construction.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:15 PM   #256 (permalink)
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Just discovered this tool works for molex SL terminals:

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...9999-ND/243789





Goes for around $50 on ebay. Not as automatic as the ratchet crimpers but relatively cheap and it is an official tool so the crimps should be within spec. They don't list AWG on this tool's dies you'd need to do a few experimental crimps and measure the crimp barrel height as per the chart to get the crimps right for the wire gauge you are using.


This tool also works for Mini Fit Jr which is used by the power connectors on PC motherboards and video cards. Custom PC builders often make their own power supply wiring harnesses to reduce excess cable lenght which may be why this tool appears to be so commonly available.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:19 PM   #257 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
Just discovered this tool works for molex SL terminals:

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...9999-ND/243789





Goes for around $50 on ebay. Not as automatic as the ratchet crimpers but relatively cheap and it is an official tool so the crimps should be within spec.
Molex says that crimper isn't for "SL" terminals even though that Digikey indicates it is.
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Old 02-16-2019, 07:26 PM   #258 (permalink)
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I have finally found an affordable crimper for servo connectors that does proper crimps, the Hozan P-706. It's more expensive than the Hansen crimpers but still pretty reasonable. This only works for generic terminals like the Hansens not genuine Amphenol mini-pv. They are pretty foolproof as you can lightly pre crimp the insulation, adjust the position of the wire then fully crimp it. So if you have problems getting the wires lined up in the terminal while crimping this tool will make that a breeze.





The thing that sets this tool apart from other generic crimpers is the 1.8mm round die. Hozan actually lists "dupont terminals" as one of the connector types for this tool. If you do it right the crimps this makes are almost as good as those from an HT-95.





Pre crimp the insulation first so that the wire can be adjusted inside the crimp barrel, line up the end of the insulation between the two crimp areas, then fully crimp it. Then line up the "brush" end of the conductor crimp with the face of the tool in the 1.4mm double D die, the other side should stick out about 0.2mm. Crimp the conductor like this and it will form a bell mouth where the strands enter the crimp. You don't need to worry about controlling crimp height just bear down on it. The fully closed die is the correct height for 22-26 AWG wire. I tested against the crimps from an HT-95 and the pull out resistance is comparable.



I actually use this tool now for pre crimping the insulation and adjusting the position of the insulation before crimping in the HT-95. It makes matching the individual wire lengths that go into the housing much easier. You can find it on Amazon for around $45 which is a little less than an Engineer PA-09.
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Old 11-08-2019, 07:09 PM   #259 (permalink)
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I just discovered that the Molex service grade tool for SL terminals will also crimp JST-XH terminals perfectly. The wire will rip out of the housing before it lets go and it takes a lot of force to yank the terminal off the wire with a pair of pliers and leaves part of the stranded wire behind in the crimp when you do this so I'd call the crimps good. So you can also use this tool for making balance lead extensions and battery packs. I figured this out when I noticed how similar JST-XH terminals and Molex Spox 2.54mm terminals (which the tool is also designed to crimp) are and decided to give it a try. Turns out it works perfectly, if anything it's actually easier to crimp XH terminals with this than SL terminals due to their shorter lenght.
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Old 11-09-2019, 05:10 AM   #260 (permalink)
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I just discovered that the Molex service grade tool for SL terminals will also crimp JST-XH terminals perfectly. The wire will rip out of the housing before it lets go and it takes a lot of force to yank the terminal off the wire with a pair of pliers and leaves part of the stranded wire behind in the crimp when you do this so I'd call the crimps good. So you can also use this tool for making balance lead extensions and battery packs. I figured this out when I noticed how similar JST-XH terminals and Molex Spox 2.54mm terminals (which the tool is also designed to crimp) are and decided to give it a try. Turns out it works perfectly, if anything it's actually easier to crimp XH terminals with this than SL terminals due to their shorter lenght.
Do you have a link to the Molex service bdade tool AS?

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