Switched to Gas....

[Hovergirl01]

Today I switched from Coleman to Gasoline. I'm sure it will be far more economical, 2.03 a gallon vs just under $15.00 (not including oil)

I also made a find on Daves Motors.....I've wanted to remove my starter and was looking and discovered these:
http://www.davesmotors.com/Axis-R-C-...rt-AX3016.html

Attached is some photos.

I'm using two and it takes less than 30seconds to remove them.

[Dawiev]

Good find !!!

[jharkin]

Good idea to switch... I never could understand why folds would go from nitro to gas, and then choose to spend $15 a gallon on special gas. If I'm paying that much Id rather keep the power of nitro

But then again I never understood why people store helis in the living room when garage s and basements work perfectly well either ...


For the removable start, have you looked at the "Raja" method using a cutoff stud and fuel tubing? Its free and it works in 3 seconds, not 30....

[Hovergirl01]

Originally Posted by jharkin

Good idea to switch... I never could understand why folds would go from nitro to gas, and then choose to spend $15 a gallon on special gas. If I'm paying that much Id rather keep the power of nitro

But then again I never understood why people store helis in the living room when garage s and basements work perfectly well either ...


For the removable start, have you looked at the "Raja" method using a cutoff stud and fuel tubing? Its free and it works in 3 seconds, not 30....

I used the Coleman because I used to live in an apartment. I had about 6 gallons stocked up. Now I have a garage so I no longer need to worry about the smell, though gas does stink.

I am going to try Raja's method, my only concern there is the studs hanging down. If I botch an auto guess what gets driven into the fan housing.

The 30 seconds is no big deal as I let the motor warm up for at least a minute anyway.

Kandace

[HAL9KPCM]

To avoid the stink in the house, I use a cut down zip lock bag and use a hair elastic to tie off the intake, plug the exhaust with some paper towel and wrap it off with another bag and hair tie. The odd time there is a faint smell, so I put in a bit of this mixed in with my gas. Then at least it smells like groovy grape :p

[jharkin]

Originally Posted by Hovergirl01

I used the Coleman because I used to live in an apartment. I had about 6 gallons stocked up. Now I have a garage so I no longer need to worry about the smell, though gas does stink.

I am going to try Raja's method, my only concern there is the studs hanging down. If I botch an auto guess what gets driven into the fan housing.

The 30 seconds is no big deal as I let the motor warm up for at least a minute anyway.

Kandace

Ive botched autos. One early on so bad I bounced the heli 10 feet back up into the air and cut the boom in half with a blade strike.

Never had damage to the fan housing.

You would have to pound one in hard enough to completely destroy the skids to cause damage like that. Honestly I wouldn't worry about it.

[Hovergirl01]

Originally Posted by jharkin

Ive botched autos. One early on so bad I bounced the heli 10 feet back up into the air and cut the boom in half with a blade strike.

Never had damage to the fan housing.

You would have to pound one in hard enough to completely destroy the skids to cause damage like that. Honestly I wouldn't worry about it.

I have a set of Tuff Strut 1's on my 700gasser and I hit so hard that it broke the plastic housing of the starter. The struts were fine. My engine is getting rebalanced by TRM, the crank was out by .010.

So I hit pretty hard.

K

[rbort]

If you didn't have the starter on then you wouldn't have damaged it. Engine maybe maybe not damaged, but anyway I would have sent it back anyways.

At least no matter what you would have saved the starter.

See you soon?

-=>Raja.

[Hovergirl01]

Originally Posted by rbort

See you soon?

-=>Raja.

Hi Raja! I will be there Friday morning.

Kandace

[Rogue22]

So Kandace, please do tell... How has your transition been to gas? Any performance boost or about the same as camp fuel?

In a month when I get my Whiplash finished, I will either have to use camp fuel, or give the plastic bags over open ports a try. No garage for me for now.

Also, not too interested in driving around in my SUV with a smelly gasser or gas tank. Maybe up on the luggage rack. NOT!!

Thanks for your comments!

See you Friday too. Maybe you will be giving Raja a run for his money with a few demos.

Steve


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rbort]

#2 Florida pilot expected tomorow.

I told #1 to bring #2 to me

See you both and Kandace in a few hours!

Just FYI, 11 to 2pm, I'm in the speed cup.

2:30, center stage demos.

4pm Carey's seminar

6pm Auto Limbo

-=>Raja.

[jharkin]

Originally Posted by Rogue22

Also, not too interested in driving around in my SUV with a smelly gasser or gas tank. Maybe up on the luggage rack. NOT!!

For years I hauled giant scale gas planes around in a hatchback car with the tail shoved between the front seats. Even drove hours to fly ins that way.

I know MANY airplane guys that still haul gas planes around in cars, vans and SUVs.

The smell is not an issue so long as your gas can is well sealed and you plug the exhaust outlet with something. And dont leave the A/C on recirculate..


BTW - Keep in mind that Coleman is still making fumes that could make you ill if you breathe too much, you just cant smell them.

[goof2]

I use Coleman fuel because it seems to stay fresh longer. Sometimes my helis may sit a few weeks or longer between flights.
Whippy sat all winter with fuel in it and still started on second pull.

[jharkin]

Originally Posted by goof2

I use Coleman fuel because it seems to stay fresh longer. Sometimes my helis may sit a few weeks or longer between flights.
Whippy sat all winter with fuel in it and still started on second pull.

Unless you have some need to keep fuel for years this is a non issue. Regular gas keep at least a few months if its sealed tight and 1-2 years dosed with stabilizer. I buy my gas by the 5 gallon jug and just mix as needed for the helis, planes and yard tools sometimes going 6 months on a batch before using it up, never had a problem.

If you store the heli all winter just run it dry or use the air purge bulb to empty the carb and you will be fine. Ive been doing that for 10 years and never had a problem.

[HAL9KPCM]

I have 2 JR GSR260Z FBL helicopters, 1 5 years old, the other 3 years. I leave a little gas in the tank to keep the felt on the pickup wet and have never used the bulb to empty the carb. I run premium gas from Shell (I'n my area, no ethanol). They sit all winter and every spring, one to two pulls with the choke on, next pull running.

[HeliJoel]

I still use Coleman instead of gas for the smell issue. I store things in my basement. Coleman fuel also does not have the additives that are bad for you. Coleman fuel is also more stable storage wise, though if you are flying enough that shouldn't be an issue. Last time I bought a couple gallons, it was around $10 each. Yes, more expensive than gas but less than 30% nitro.

98 Eagle II GS

Joel

[GREYEAGLE]

Should also know that many OEM warranties are instantly VOID if they detect it.
Naptha can also be used for reducing : Exterior Oil Base Paint's.
Yet it is completely different than Mineral Spirits and then Turpentine.

It is different than gas : AND also be aware that their are VERY many Gas users in small portable power equip that are
: " Extremely - Picky " about their Gas Fuel Quality "

Example's :
Professional Top Line Aerial Tree Pro's - with their Top Handle - " One Hand " Chain Saw's - Very Selective

Spendy Saw's ---They want One Pull Only - Same with High End Small Gas Engines -
Generators and High End Washers. That Gas-- for That Motor Only - Separate Jug.

Never by gas for small motor's by cost - Purchase by Quality if you want reliability

Their is a reason for it too ! Gas can go BAD FAST ! 1st thing in the spring a small engine mechanic is going to do to the SWARM -of incoming mowers is get rid of their fuel !.

Depending where you are in the USA : Gasoline additives change due to Pollution Law and Season also - " Temp and Humidity " Then toss in the Goofy Corn GAs or whatever the soup flavor is .

Not uncommon to see a fountain of water running from a tail pipe.
Each Distribution network at the end of the line May Add some additive THEIRS ! - Injector cleaners ect.

Why does GAS Stink ?? Why does Not Naphtha ?? : Far as Combustion Engineering :
What's the Difference in BTU and their Octane ? Their is a difference : Naphtha is actually LOWER - But what makes it special ?

It's Not Alcohol either !

Want some CRAZY FUN ? Take a OLD - Junk - Don't Care - 4- cycle Lawn mower - Put a Load of Naphtha in it ! Then try to shut it off !!!

To Each their Own -

[jharkin]

Originally Posted by HeliJoel

I still use Coleman instead of gas for the smell issue. I store things in my basement. Coleman fuel also does not have the additives that are bad for you. Coleman fuel is also more stable storage wise, though if you are flying enough that shouldn't be an issue. Last time I bought a couple gallons, it was around $10 each. Yes, more expensive than gas but less than 30% nitro.

98 Eagle II GS

Joel

Most of the "additives" in commercial gasoline are detergents, anti wear additives and stabilizers. All meant to help the engine run cleaner. The "smell" of gas has nothing to do with these additive packs and instead is due to the presence of Benzene with helps boost octane.


Folks, this thread is FULL of urban legends. The Naptha in Coleman fuel is every bit as poisonous as regular gas is. And our engines where never designed to run on it.

If folks don't like the smell that's just fine, but it would help new guys if we stick to the facts.

Coleman is naptha.

• It's 55 octane.
• It has no detergents.
• It's designed for camp stoves and is used in industry as a solvent and for hydrogen production.

Regular pump gas will last up to 6months well stored or 1-2 years with stabilizer.

Ethanol

• Ethanol is not generally a problem unless you have very old equipment with natural rubber seals in the carb.
• Ethanol is a strong solvent and doesn't cause gumming, it removes gumming!It gets a reputation because it cleans gum deposits from old gas which then clog the jets, small engine mechanics find this and the only change was E10 gas so they blame that.
• Ethanol absorbs water but this is only an issue if you get massive % of water in the tank like in boats. In fact 'drygas' and 'isoheet' are made of ethanol!
• Ethanol was added to gas for two reasons...
• environmental to displace crude oil (science is dubious on this benefit)
• And because its an EXCELLENT octane booster, replacing nasty options like Lead (brain damage), and MBTE (cancer).
• Trivia - The octane boosting property of ethanol was known 100 years ago or more, and the neurotoxic effects of lead have been known for centuries. Lead was commercialized for hi octane gas only becuase GM had a monopoly in the Etyhl corporation.

AvGas

• AvGas last longer than pump gas because it's a tighter refinement more consistent vapor pressure and less volatiles (this is not done for longevity -its done to reduce the chance of vapor lock at altitude and for consistence in weight/balance/range calculations)
• 100LL is low lead relative to the WWII era 100/130 mix. It still has as much or more lead than regular leaded auto gas ever had.
• Lead fouls spark plugs and causes brain damage.

Octane....

• The USA uses a different formula to measure octane than Europe and Asia.
• The Zenoah manual says 90+ octane but that's RON, it equals approx 86 octane USA (R+M/2)
• More octane doesn't equal more power, it means less knocking and less energy. Unless you run more aggressive compression and ignition timing more octane doesn't help power.
• Users have proved that our engines are very insensitive to octane and run ok on everything from 55octane naptha to race gas.

So it's up if you want to spend $2 or spend a lot more for Coleman, race gas, AvGas, etc....

[jjoos99]

Originally Posted by HAL9KPCM

To avoid the stink in the house, I use a cut down zip lock bag and use a hair elastic to tie off the intake, plug the exhaust with some paper towel and wrap it off with another bag and hair tie. The odd time there is a faint smell, so I put in a bit of this mixed in with my gas. Then at least it smells like groovy grape :p

does the grape additive only change the exhaust smell or helps with the raw gas smell?
Jeff

[HAL9KPCM]

Originally Posted by jjoos99

does the grape additive only change the exhaust smell or helps with the raw gas smell?
Jeff

BOTH! Warning though, don't open the additive in the house to check it out, pretty powerful stuff. Takes very little added to a gallon of gas. Something like a tablespoon.