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Old 09-05-2017, 11:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Power Supply


Been running one Cellpro 6 and want to add a second.Powering the one charger with two server power supply at 25v. No problem.Bought a second Cellpro and power it with another set of server PS. Generator feeding two independent sets of two series PS each. While changingwith both Cellpro’s set at 20a the generator will start to surge. I can charge individuallyeach Cellpro at 40a with no problem. Generator is about 60% @ 40a. Soooo decidedto series/parallel with two PS in parallel and series both to 25v. Either PS set will come on but both. Should work?
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Old 09-25-2017, 08:29 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Two Cellpro’s apparently do not play well with each other. I tried different presets and varying freq and balance +- mv helped a little. Running chargers individual both ramp up to 40amps with generator of 60% load and smooth no surging. Two chargers running at one time, they surge each other.

First charge of the day all packs at 50%, #1 charger with 4ea 5000mah set at 5amp each. #2 with 4ea 4000mah set at 4amps each. Total charge amps 36. Started both chargers, once up to about 80% charge rate the two chargersstarted to surge for about a minute then overloaded the generator. Second attempt started #1 let it run for a few minutes then started #2. Both ramped up and charged to set amperage. Generator surged slightly during the charge.

Is there a fix for this?
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Old 09-25-2017, 12:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default overloading the generator

remember each power supply set will require some overhead just to run, I suggest trying to use a single power supply set. And if you can a three unit set in series would be ideal as they would delivery 36v to the chargers.

Also if you are charging 6s packs and are only putting out 24v from your power supplies you charger will have to boost the power to get to the 25.2 volts, and in doing so will consume more power to support the boost.

From your description is sounds like you are just pulling too much from the generator, and as load from the chargers increase the generator cannot idle up quick enough so the charges are probably seeing the sag and start drawing less current, then as they ramp up the generator sags again.. which is why when you start the first charger and let the system stabilize before starting the second you have more success... but you're still overloading the generator.

another thing to consider is when the generator manufacturer lists the available wattage that is a theoretical maximum. age, wear, and even wiring from the plugs to the power supply, can all effect what performance you actually get.
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thank you!

4ea 5000 packs single charger will top out supply at 40a and 38a to the packs, normal. Generators running 60%. For years never had a charge or load issue. Now I can drop the load to 15a charge rate on dual #1 & #2 and still will surge. Well below single charger supply draw.

In stable charge both read 25.0v.

I tried 4 PS's first, varied the series-parallel setup and it surged either setup figuring the surge possibly from the PS's. I went to now 2 PS's that also surge. Didn't mention but two generators were tried.
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default interesting ...

I assume charging from wall current doesn't have any issues?
are your power supplies plugged directly into generator or with an extension cord?
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:31 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Same cord and the house lights do not dim. LOL
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Old 09-26-2017, 05:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
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sorry man, out of ideas ... maybe anyone else will have ideas
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Old 09-26-2017, 06:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
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What is the generators voltage?

If you are charging the batteries at 36 amps and using two separate set of PSUs for each charger, each set has its own efficiency issues so they are probably draining quite more than 40amps.

As Drivelayer said if there is a step up to reach the batteries 25.2v the charger will drain even more amps. Keep in mind that current from the generators tend to be unstable and the suplies may run in efficiency issues because of that.
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:54 AM   #9 (permalink)
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One charger going I have 25.2 two 25.0. One becomes unstable during surge. I can still load one charger supply to 40a works fine. Load two to 15a a side and surges. Im still lean to dual charging the charger draws on each become unstable trying to meet charging demands.

I have tried 2 and 4 PS's and swapped generators.
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:30 PM   #10 (permalink)
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What generator are you using?
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Old 09-28-2017, 01:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Ryobi 1800
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Old 10-01-2017, 10:58 AM   #12 (permalink)
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the inverter generator? 1800 / 2200

that's the one I am running, great unit.

what happens if you turn off the autoidle?
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Old 10-02-2017, 12:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Its a 1800, auto idle off still surges.

I'm leaning to the cause of 25.2v +- supply while single charging is dropping off to 24.8+- while dual charging. Trying 2 or 4 PS my voltage has been constant and I can get the supply amps but if the voltage drops I loose the amp push.

I'd add 3rd PS but over the 32v max.

If your using multiple DPS600 PS connect the #11 pins together. Equalizes the two PS's load. Makes a noticeable difference.
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Old 10-02-2017, 12:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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what happens if you connect both chargers to the single power supply?
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:18 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drivelayer View Post
what happens if you connect both chargers to the single power supply?
It works perfectly as long as you don't draw more than the power supplies and generator are capable of. Also, you really need to leave some contingency on the power supplies so don't run them at 100% of their rated power, I'd go 80-90% max.

My DPL8x2 has been powered by a single 48v 1500W power supply for years w/o issue.
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Old 10-04-2017, 02:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Now we are getting to the PL6 issue. Dual charge supply limitation running two PL6's.

The PL6 is limited to 30v. PL8 duo 48v a huge difference and probably has circuitry to share load between #1 and 2. PL6 is limited to two PS or 25v in series and PL8 at 4.

Lesson in ohs law. As posted I can run individually each PL6 up to 40a supply 60% Gen load no issue. Run both at a lower 15a each total of 30 supply the surge begins.

The charger work great if connected to power pole, just don't have that option at the field.







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Old 10-04-2017, 10:49 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMcN View Post
Now we are getting to the PL6 issue. Dual charge supply limitation running two PL6's.

I'm not convinced it's a PL6 issue.

The PL6 is limited to 30v. PL8 duo 48v a huge difference and probably has circuitry to share load between #1 and 2. PL6 is limited to two PS or 25v in series and PL8 at 4.

DPL8x2 does not share load between channels. Max voltage input is max voltage input.

Lesson in ohs law. As posted I can run individually each PL6 up to 40a supply 60% Gen load no issue. Run both at a lower 15a each total of 30 supply the surge begins.

The charger work great if connected to power pole, just don't have that option at the field.

I'd recommend using a Kill-A-Watt meter between the power supplies and generator to see the actual load on the generator.
Perhaps what you're seeing is buck/boost transitions


....
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:58 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Buck-boost, watts is watts.
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:13 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMcN View Post
Buck-boost, watts is watts.
Indeed, but if the generator/power supply can't handle dW/dt then things like surging can occur.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=611176

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=587496

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=633852

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=759893

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=609138
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:10 PM   #20 (permalink)
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From all the descriptions I have read, sounds exactly like a buck/boost issue due to power supply voltage and 6S charging. Nothing you can do about it except decrease charging amps to make generator headroom for it or get your PSU output voltage up to about 28V if possible (allow for some voltage sag).
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