150x Tail bounces up and down...Not Solved - HeliFreak
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Old 09-23-2017, 08:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Angry 150x Tail bounces up and down...Not Solved

I recently purchased a 150x, it flew fine during the battery break in flights.The next flying session it was time for some acro, it did fine except... it developed a elevator bounce. Sometimes it occurs during forward flight, but not always. With a fresh battery it seems to be gone, then as the battery runs down it comes back. It acts like the cyclic gain is to high. I've adjusted all of the cyclic parameters, one at a time, with minimal effect. It also seems to be head speed related, but the up and down bounce of the tail seems to occur randomly. Main blades are balanced, and it seems to run smooth. I'm stumped I just downgraded the firmware on the heli and then reloaded the latest firmware. Can't figure out why it would fly so well for the first 30 flights and then act up like this. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Last edited by Jason Courville; 09-26-2017 at 11:21 AM..
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Old 09-24-2017, 05:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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After painstakingly trying to adjust gains and other parameters, it ended up being a CG issue. The mylipo batteries made it somewhat tail heavy. Added a few grams to the inside of the canopy nose, and the bounce was gone. I'm going to put the satellite back in it's case to reduce a little of the dead weight. I used the tungsten pine car derby weights, if anyone is interested.
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Old 09-24-2017, 08:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Weird. 333mAh? Mine doesn't have any wobble with MyLiPo.
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Old 09-25-2017, 12:06 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Yes it's the 333 mAh. Number, what kind of throttle curve are you running?
Right after I posted, I took the weight out and ran the align stock 250 mAh pack. I upped the flat line throttle curve from 70% to 75%. It seemed to fly better. I guess it didn't like the lower head speed. What do you think?
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Old 09-25-2017, 06:42 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I run 100% flat always on 150s. The motors just don’t have the torque at lower headspeeds.
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Old 09-25-2017, 07:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Okay thanks, maybe that's why I'm experiencing this bounce. Are you running stock settings and gains on cyclic and tail?
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RotoSkull X quad with RMRC DoDo, now FPV!
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Old 09-25-2017, 11:12 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Yeah, except lower cyclic gain by 5% because sometimes it porpoises in very fast dives at stock gain settings.
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Old 09-25-2017, 11:28 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks Number, I appreciate the help.
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RotoSkull X quad with RMRC DoDo, now FPV!
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Old 09-25-2017, 12:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Any more questions feel free to hit me up

Love my 150X, though my MyLiPo are starting to show their age
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Old 09-25-2017, 09:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Okay, tried the 75% flat line throttle curve on the mylipo packs and all is good . It didn't reduce my flight times that much. I'm not ready for 100% throttle yet. Got the cyclic and tail gains to my liking, time to practice new moves with this little guy Inverted practice here I come!
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RotoSkull X quad with RMRC DoDo, now FPV!
DX7s
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Old 09-25-2017, 09:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Sweet
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:29 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Very frustrated! Just got back from the park, first pack, every thing fine only small oscillation. Second pack, the oscillation is back. The only thing different about today is the air temperature, heat index 92. Yesterday afternoon only 78. I think it is time to contact Align and find out what can be done. NOT happy at all
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RotoSkull X quad with RMRC DoDo, now FPV!
DX7s
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Old 09-27-2017, 01:27 AM   #13 (permalink)
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A friend of mine had the same type of oscillatinons on his Trex 150 non X. It was a bad gear in one of the cyclic servos

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Old 09-28-2017, 04:42 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Hey buddy.

From what you are describing it could be your head dampers influencing the bounce, seeing as it changes with rotor rpm as you've said. Different temperatures could maybe be helping or hindering your LiPo's power output and in turn making small changes to the main rotors rpm.

I've got the hard Lynx dampers in my 150DFC running BLHeli and it has an elevator axis wobble sometimes in the hover I've noticed which is annoying, then on another identical model I setup the same for a customer with the stock Align dampers in, it's smooth.
Maybe try adding some grease to the dampers so they can move freely as the feathering shaft moves slightly in flight.

Another idea, blade tightness in the main grips.
As the blades lead & lag slightly, their low weight can stop centrifugal forces from making them straight again and thus are then out of balance in flight.

Another thought, is the tail blade in balance? Even a small amount of grass on it at this size could give problems, but then as the problem comes and goes this is ruled out I think.
If it's a physical problem I'd expect you to see it in all flights, not just some.

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Last edited by Coolice; 09-28-2017 at 06:51 AM..
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Old 09-28-2017, 05:48 AM   #15 (permalink)
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If the 150X is anything like the 150DFC it will be extremely tail heavy. Tail heaviness causes dynamic instability in forward flight leading to oscillation/ porpoising as the FBL fights to keep the heli from pitching.

If this is what is causing it then probably the only true fix is to correct the balance issue but as the battery cant be moved this means adding weight to the nose. It's worth checking the balance and if required add nose weight just to rule this in or out as a cause before starting on any other changes.
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Old 09-28-2017, 05:10 PM   #16 (permalink)
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anybody ever try the rakon heli landing skid with the adjustable battery mount on the 150?
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Old 09-29-2017, 04:09 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I have a heavily modified original 150DFC with the Rakon Heli landing skids. As is so often the case with Rakon parts, the skids are a really nice, well thought through design. They do improve the cog but a standard model will still be tail heavy even with the battery adjusted as far forward as it will go.

The front end of mine is loaded with a ‎µSpirit, 2 separate ESCs and a Lionheli canopy. The rear is weighed down with a 12 magnet bell and a 65mm prop. The tail end is slightly lightened with a carbon fibre boom and with this setup the cog is perfect.

Up until recently my 150 always suffered with tail bobbing to some extent. I have now eliminated it but never really nailed down the cause. I can say though that a tail heavy cog does not seem to cause or contribute to this, at least not to any significant extent. Dampers and blades are a factor. As I say I couldn't pin it down to one thing but in my case the tail bobbing gradually improved and was eventually solved by a combination of balancing blades, lubricating dampers, replacing shafts and adjusting the controller.
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Old 09-29-2017, 10:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Thanks for all of the advice and suggestions guys. I decided to contact align and got a RMA to send it in for testing. I figured it was the best thing to do while it was still in warenty. I did add about 5 grams in the nose at one point, and it balanced it nearly perfect. It seemed to help. I took the wait out when I increased the throttle curve ,and flew fine. Hopefully align can get it lined out.
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AKA, Darth Daddy (according to my daughter)
Prôtos 380,Trex 450 Sport V2 DFC, Brain 2 mini, Trex 150x
RotoSkull X quad with RMRC DoDo, now FPV!
DX7s
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:21 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Default 150x replaced!

A few days ago I received the 150x back from align trex store. The only note was a post it note saying replaced with new 150x So far so good. First chance I get I'll fly it a little harder, but I'm encouraged. Excellent customer service by Align and Enterprise Hobby
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Prôtos 380,Trex 450 Sport V2 DFC, Brain 2 mini, Trex 150x
RotoSkull X quad with RMRC DoDo, now FPV!
DX7s

Last edited by Jason Courville; 10-15-2017 at 09:08 AM..
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