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Old 11-15-2017, 05:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default What sim to use for FPV racers?

What airport and aircraft should I be using in Real Flight 7.5 to practice?
Any decent sims out there?
Rick
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Old 11-23-2017, 09:42 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default What sim to use for FPV racers?

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Originally Posted by rdlohr View Post
What airport and aircraft should I be using in Real Flight 7.5 to practice?
Any decent sims out there?
Rick
Since your thread title is not "sim specific", and you're asking about Real Flight in your message (which I don't own and therefore can't comment about), I can offer my Phoenix Flight v5.51 sim First Person View settings.

So if anyone is interested, here's what I do:

Model is Blade 350-QX V3

Flying Site [3D] Highlands with Lakes

View -> Camera -> FPV

Also, trying to make the experience more intense, I covered up my head and monitor with a towel (dark room works the best).

Hey, it works for me! Anyone else care to share what works best for you?
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Old 11-23-2017, 11:43 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlohr View Post
What airport and aircraft should I be using in Real Flight 7.5 to practice?
Any decent sims out there?
Rick
RF 7.5 is good. Not having a regular Windows machine I have not used it for a while. (Use Heli-X for helis mostly - awaiting beta release of AccuRC for Mac).

FPVFreerider (demo version) is a good primer. (https://fpv-freerider.itch.io/fpv-freerider) There are upgrades, but if paying for a FPV drone specific simulator, I'd go for a different one.

I use Velocidrone for race practice (https://www.velocidrone.com/). Feels pretty close to my race drone and can configure it with the same style of setup (betaflight). The graphics may not be completely photo-realistic, but they are good enough. In Velocidrone you can set up your own tracks too.

A lot also swear by Lift Off. (http://www.liftoff-game.com/) Available from Steam. It also now supports a betaflight style configuration for feel. Lift Off has MUCH better graphics than Velocidrone, but needs more computing power to drive it. Physics are also good.

Unlike heli's race drones onboard controllers and if running betaflight have both expo and super rates. Super is based on a 1/x functions and extends flip/roll/yaw rates. Expo is what you are used to in your TX already. Ideally you want a sim that simulates both expo and super for rates as well as has good physics, adjustable camera angle and lens width.

If your computer can output HDMI, the Aomway Commander v1's have an HDMI input (need an HDMI to mini-HDMI cable). This will enable you to practice with the goggles so you can get used to the field of view.
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Old 11-28-2017, 05:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks guys. Sorry I missed this earlier.

I'm downloading velocidrome now to try.

I like the idea of feeding it into my headset!

Rick
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Old 11-28-2017, 05:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'm playing with Liftoff downloaded on steam and it's actually pretty incredible and easy to use. Was only $16!!
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Old 11-28-2017, 05:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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HOLY CRAP!
If this is anything like the real thing, it's hard like learning FF all over again. Good thing I am simming.

Is there a way to set the camera to be fixed while I get used to flying this bad boy?

Rick
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OnTheSnap View Post
I'm playing with Liftoff downloaded on steam and it's actually pretty incredible and easy to use. Was only $16!!
Is there a trial version?

Rick
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Is there a trial version?

Rick
I don't think so. But it seems most of the pilots like this particular sim. After messing with it I'm really really impressed.

And yah the angle of the camera makes the yaw totally wonky. Coming from a hobby that values a flat piro, now to one that is bizarre.

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Old 11-28-2017, 06:14 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Looks like $19.99 here
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:23 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Ah you missed the sale by 1 day.
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Old 11-28-2017, 08:11 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Ah you missed the sale by 1 day.
Haha, story of my life!

Rick
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:50 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlohr View Post
HOLY CRAP!
If this is anything like the real thing, it's hard like learning FF all over again. Good thing I am simming.

Is there a way to set the camera to be fixed while I get used to flying this bad boy?

Rick
Velocidrone the "F" key swaps of camera views (LOS - FPV)

FPV Freerider can set camera to LOS.

Lift Off also has a follow mode (like RealFlight and HeliX).

Sim is important, but you will get the hang of it pretty quickly. (left is always left, yaw will always spin you the same way whether upright or inverted).

You can lose "where you are in space" in FPV very easily, which is akin to Heli "which way is the heli facing". Both classify as loss of orientation.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlohr View Post
HOLY CRAP!
If this is anything like the real thing, it's hard like learning FF all over again. Good thing I am simming.

Is there a way to set the camera to be fixed while I get used to flying this bad boy?

Rick
Hotprops was only sim i ever got to work on the pc i had but all the fpv sims seem to make me naseus. i cant fly long at all i need to try phoenix again maybe now with my newer pc it work.

and yes at least with hot props it seems near impossible to fly the corse those guys make it look easy on the videos
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Old 11-30-2017, 06:43 PM   #14 (permalink)
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OK, thanks. LOS helped tremendously. It allowed me to dail in the collective to be not so sensitive and the yaw to be quicker. I'll practice a bit.

Rick
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I bought both Velocidrone and Lift Off.

Lift Off is too CPU intensive for my computer, even when I use the fastest setting.

Velocidrone works pretty well, but the quad seems more squirrelly than I would expect. I can't keep it in one spot like it has a mind of its own. I have a NanoQX and a Convergence VTOL and I can easily hover them. Is there a setting to keep the sim engine from throwing in changes that I am not commanding?

Rick
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:53 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The quads are very squirrelly in real life if you try to hover and/or land... Nothing like a heli with line of sight IMO. I think the FPV feed just isn't good enough to provide the feedback you need for good hovering. With line of sight I have no problem at all hovering and landing a quad.

I have liftoff and don't think it's very realistic as of a couple months ago. Maybe I'll try it again since it's always updating.
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Old 12-01-2017, 07:02 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint723 View Post
The quads are very squirrelly in real life if you try to hover and/or land... Nothing like a heli with line of sight IMO. I think the FPV feed just isn't good enough to provide the feedback you need for good hovering. With line of sight I have no problem at all hovering and landing a quad.

I have liftoff and don't think it's very realistic as of a couple months ago. Maybe I'll try it again since it's always updating.
I was hovering with LOS. It's adding movement that doesn't seem realistic to me.

Rick
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Old 12-01-2017, 08:08 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlohr View Post
I was hovering with LOS. It's adding movement that doesn't seem realistic to me.

Rick
You must remember these are overpowered little monsters being simulated. 10% throttle is often enough to hover. Max speed is north of 80mph. Your average mini-drone or hobby shop drone (or Nano QX) is quite docile by comparison.

Velicidrone also does not simulate self level by default. It can, but default settings do not. Consequently these are slippery little things to fly LOS (and lack a lot of the heli visual references).

LOS in rate mode (non-SL mode) it is easy to get into a chase your tail type of situation till you get back ahead of the controls. This is as true IRL as in the sim.

LOS, I find it easier to control in forward flight than hovering.

Quads do suffer a lot from propwash and ground effect. Most of these effects are minimal if forward flight.

When LOS testing a new quad, I dial the throttle right back (so I hover at mid-stick). I can do this with a pot on my Taranis for one of the flight modes. Saves having a throttle curve.

Mix for THR mod by pot is:
CH1: Thr Weight(+100%) NoTrim
*= S1 Weight(+50%) Offset(50%)
+= S1 Weight(+50%) Offset(-50%)

S1 varies from -100 to +100, so *=multiply by 50% offset 50% is a multiplier by 0 to 100

The following S1 addition moves the throttle down so that the low point is always -100.
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageAU View Post
You must remember these are overpowered little monsters being simulated. 10% throttle is often enough to hover. Max speed is north of 80mph. Your average mini-drone or hobby shop drone (or Nano QX) is quite docile by comparison.

Velicidrone also does not simulate self level by default. It can, but default settings do not. Consequently these are slippery little things to fly LOS (and lack a lot of the heli visual references).

LOS in rate mode (non-SL mode) it is easy to get into a chase your tail type of situation till you get back ahead of the controls. This is as true IRL as in the sim.

LOS, I find it easier to control in forward flight than hovering.

Quads do suffer a lot from propwash and ground effect. Most of these effects are minimal if forward flight.

When LOS testing a new quad, I dial the throttle right back (so I hover at mid-stick). I can do this with a pot on my Taranis for one of the flight modes. Saves having a throttle curve.

Mix for THR mod by pot is:
CH1: Thr Weight(+100%) NoTrim
*= S1 Weight(+50%) Offset(50%)
+= S1 Weight(+50%) Offset(-50%)

S1 varies from -100 to +100, so *=multiply by 50% offset 50% is a multiplier by 0 to 100

The following S1 addition moves the throttle down so that the low point is always -100.
Thanks. So you are telling me the sim is realistic and they do slide around a lot when not in FF. OK, thanks.

Rick
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Old 12-01-2017, 06:06 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Thanks. So you are telling me the sim is realistic and they do slide around a lot when not in FF. OK, thanks.

Rick
Exactly.

This is why tuning rates to your preferences becomes so important.

Also with quads there are 2 types of rates:
- DR/Expo.
- Super.

Super extends DR with a 1/X type curve. This keeps more sensitivity on mid rates than expo.

Max flip, roll and yaw rates of > 720 degrees per second are not uncommon. DEFAULT rates are usually 666 degrees per second.

I use 600 degrees per second when racing and 1000 degrees per second in freestyle (a lot have freestyle rates higher than this).

By contrast, an agile heli has flip and roll rates round 360 degrees per second (and yaw of round 720 degrees per second).
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