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Old 11-30-2017, 07:28 AM   #21 (permalink)
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What tool you going to use to cut the frames. Possibly a Dremel tool with cut off wheel.??
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Old 12-05-2017, 12:43 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I emailed MA twice and have not gotten a response on the nitro main gear OWB conversion kit. Is it available yet?
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Old 12-05-2017, 02:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Back to work

We where traveling over the weekend so no time to work on it. The last couple evenings I got back to work and continued on.

First thing is to finish preparing the frame for modifications. Since I am going to replace the servos and will end up relocating a lot of electronics up front for balance, I basically stripped it down all the way

Now we are ready to start cutting... read on.


Shop time so far: 5 hr
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:05 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttaylor View Post
What tool you going to use to cut the frames. Possibly a Dremel tool with cut off wheel.??
The cutoff wheel wont really work with the templates. You need two approaches.

First is the large material removals to widen the gear cutout, etc. For this the best thing to use is a dremel sanding drum. It will cut the carbon frames like butter and you can ride it right along the SS template without fear.

The only downside is it wont get into the tight corners. For that I use a dremel multipurpose drill/mill bit.. You have to work slow here as it doesn't really side cut the carbon well. Its workable but takes time.



For the holes and slotted holes, Larry pointed me to these full carbide stub drills available at Henley tool. This is a 3/32 carbide stub - its a little small but you can side cut with it like and end mil and work your way around the slots riding the template.

BE CAREFUL! Even the carbide drill has a hard time side cutting and if you lean on it with too much pressure you can snap it (ask me how I know good thing I thought to order two)

I thought of a few different approaches for cutting... First I was going to do it on the drill press, then I considered using the dremel with the router attachment to guide it... but both proved cumbersome and in the end free handing it was the least problematic.

Yes, I know this sounds iffy for keeping the tolerances tight, but remember that you are only modifying a couple holes and most of the main and pinion gear blocks will still be positioned by the other CNC cut factory holes.


Remember all your carbon safety precautions - use a shop vac while cutting and wear a mask.
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:08 PM   #25 (permalink)
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To set up the cut I bolted the template in place using a couple of the unmodified holes, then marked off all the areas needing modification and went to work.

The result isn't perfect (still needs some corner cleanup) but came out pretty nice and from a few feet away you cant tell its not factory.

Shop time so far: 6 hr
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:10 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 777ER View Post
I emailed MA twice and have not gotten a response on the nitro main gear OWB conversion kit. Is it available yet?
I dont know. Josef is down at OHB this week with a bunch of the team pilots. You could pm Raja (rbort) or Devon Connors and ask them to talk to Josef at the event.
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Last edited by jharkin; 12-05-2017 at 04:27 PM..
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:30 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Slow steady progress...

... just cant move fast when I'm getting up for work at 5:30 am every day and dont get to the shop until 8pm after all the after school stuff and homework is done and the kids are in bed.

But Im keeping at it. Al called me and my engines will be back early next week - better get going!

With the first frame cut, I wanted a change of pace and started working on putting together the new parts. I assembled the the new main bearing blocks, and put together the main gear and auto hub stack.

A couple of points of interest - this gear is beefy! I will post number later but at over 100g its quite a bit heavier than the V1 gear and over twice as heavy as a TRex nitro maingear.

Contrary to my worry, the gear does fit on the hub, you just have to press it into place with some force. Its tight enough that you may have some trouble rotating it to line up the screw holes once its seated - I lightly bolted in the mainshaft and head and used that as a lever to turn it to the right position. (Note: pay careful attention to the orientation of the gear. On this model the concave surface of the gear faces down, on the V1 it faced up)

Lots of screws to put this and the crown gear together (13 total) so take your time, use loctite as always and remember to tighten it up in a cris-cross pattern.

The conversion provides you with a number of shims that go between the main hub and auto gear. You need to add enough so that the auto gear is not rubbing the main hub with all the bearings fully seated; you will feel it if it does, a light clicking. For me I ended up using 3 shims (5 are provided).
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:40 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I wonder why they decided to go with such a beefy maingear? Was the V1 maingear having issues. I never had a problem with mine except when I crashed it and it stripped out. When I ordered a new gear it came as the newer one that is much beefier.
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:11 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Probably to resist flex under load. Switching from a straight cut to helical gear adds an axial component of force at the mesh point wich can cause deflection in the gear. (this is the trade off for the lower noise and smoother running that the helical provides)

Extrapilot has posted computer analysis of what happens to helical geartrains in flight under full load in some other threads. Stuff is moving around a lot more than we might think, which accelerates wear - even if we are not noticing the issues casually (i.e. due to catastrophic gear failures as in old TRex's).

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...on#post7209125
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Old 12-07-2017, 12:41 PM   #30 (permalink)
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They even up graded the Straight cut V1 gear. Thatís what Iím using.
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Old 12-08-2017, 05:42 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joecass2 View Post
They even up graded the Straight cut V1 gear. Thatís what Iím using.
Yeah, I know. We got a bunch of the first batch of those last year to test out. I guess they just want to make it strong
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Old 12-08-2017, 01:49 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Some more work, got the transmission mounts all assembled and installed. I used all new screws to bolt everything together for good measure. Didn't need to persay but the old stuff was really caked with loctite and a bit rusty from 4 years in the garage.

I slipped the mainshaft in and checked it for alignment before applying loctite and tightening all the upper screws in a cris-cross. I left the 4 screws of the lower pinion mount loose until the engine goes in to check final alignment.


TIP: I checked with Raja - the clutch stack on the new setup mounts in the FORWARD of the 3 holes, not the middle like on the v1.
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Old 12-08-2017, 01:51 PM   #33 (permalink)
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And I started assembling the TT. Pay close attention to the diagram for the orientation of each part. Use loctite 648 (a thick version of green bearing retainer) to attached the ends, the bearing mounts to the tube and the bearings to the bearing mounts.

The loctite 648 gets tacky FAST, so be ready with everything measured out before you start. To apply, lightly spread some on one part with your finger, work the parts together then immediately wipe away the excess and leave htem to dry.

Tip - warm up the plastic cups with a heat gun to press the bearings in, they are a very tight fit.

Shop time so far: 8.5 hr
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Old 12-10-2017, 06:02 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I got the TT installed in the boom, use some silicone crease on the o-rings and it slides in easy. Actually fits better than the v1 TT did.

But then ran into a minor snag installing the boom. Guys with old v1 plastic tailgears from Montana listen up: The new TT ends fit VERY snug into the old gears. So sung I thought the TT did not fit at first because I couldn't get the ends to bottom out in the gear in the tail transmission.

To make this work first make sure the inside of the gear in the tailcase is clean - use a pipe cleaner and rubbing alcohol or mild soap if needed to clean it out. Then very lightly grease the TT end and install. It may take some pressure to get it to seat but you have to make sure its all the way bottomed out or the boom wont fit into the locating holes at either end.
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Futaba, Bavarian Demon, Hanson Engines| DIY Lithium field battery
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Old 12-10-2017, 06:04 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Now a short break...

... mailman brought me a present.


Time to get the other engine bolted back into the Helix, and then I will get back to work on the Whiplash.
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Old 12-12-2017, 07:05 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Back to work...

I spent Sunday afternoon getting the Helix put back together, and then Monday night after work I started back on the Whiplash.

Next up is reinstalling all the electronics and figuring out the new wiring layout. In a change from before I'm moving all the electronics up front to try and correct the tail heavy situation of the V1. This requires a new layout, but it looks like it will be a simpler setup with fewer long extensions required.

As mentioned in the beginning I'm upgrading the BLS451 cyclics to BLS272s, so Im going to have to redo the servo centering and swash setup.


Shop time so far: 10 hr
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Old 12-13-2017, 06:09 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Before I go to much farther with the electronics I wanted to place the engine to check some wire routings, so I pulled it out of the box from Hanson and built it back up. If you recall this is an older 270 I had Al rebuild as a 300, so Ill need to do a full break in again.

Continuing with the theme of simplification, I ditched the stator gator and am going back to the GV1 sensor. To make things even cleaner, I got Carey's sensor mount - this thing is very slick!



Then, comes the clutch stack. In addition to simplifying the layout I'm looking for the smoothest possible setup this time around. Raja made a special run of clutch yokes trued up on a lathe so I am installing that, AND I used the dremel and a scale to weight match the clutch shoes. I did this before on the Helix and it seems to help, stock they are 0.1-0.2g different, I get them matched to 0.01.





Ready to go...

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Old 12-13-2017, 06:13 AM   #38 (permalink)
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I also did a little more work on the wiring (not shown) and installed the last few frame spacers and mounts.

One thing that's different on the conversion: without the tail transmission there is only one screw to attach the rear canopy mount tabs.

If you set them up as breakaway this is fine. If you where using both screws to reduce vibes then you can't do that any more. I found a solution using a spare frame spacer I had lying around. Alternately you could use a longer screw like an M3x12 with a nylock.

Shop time so far: 11.5 hr
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:26 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Finally got some decent shop time in over the last few days to finish wiring everything up and install the new gears.

Moving all the electronics up front required completely reworking the wiring layout. I ended up shortening many leads to make it all fit neatly, and was able to eliminate a lot of extensions.


The new gear train is all in place now as well. When you lock in the lower jesus bolt and press the 3rd bearing block up and screw it in tight, have the boom and TT hand to check alignment.
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:29 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I also installed the new tail pitch slider and started to work on the rudder pushrod. My wire pushrod is still fine but I'm switching over to the CF rod since its apart.

I had the CF on my v1 until the first crash, it works great but I did once have the JBWeld loosen up. So this time no fooling around, I used hysol

(BTW, Ive used JBWeld on CF airplane pushrods forever without a single failure - some of those have lasted over 10 years. I think its just the higher freq vibes on the heli that caused an issue)

Shop time so far: 15+ hr
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