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Old 02-08-2018, 09:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default logo 550 tail wag

Just finished building my 2017 logo 550 (yes - it took me way too long) and got to maiden her. She has a slow tail wag at 1900 RPM's that increases in frequency at 2100 rpm's. FBL is vbar neo and tail servo is xpert r2t. The tail seems to hold when i punch the collective, but i want to get the wag sorted before i fly it.

Interestingly, when i built a logo 500se like 5 years ago, it had the same type of wag. The problem that time was the tail box wasn't on square, but i have gone over that like 3 times now and i really think i have it set right.

It really seems like something mechanical, but nothing is popping up that's obvious to me. tail moves relatively smoothly side to side, i wouldn't call it perfectly "butter", but definitely smooth.

Any ideas?
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Old 02-09-2018, 12:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Carefully smooth/remove the molding flash on the plastic balls on the tail rotor grip pitch arms. It will help make the tail smoother and eliminated the wag in my case.
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Old 02-09-2018, 05:30 AM   #3 (permalink)
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agreed slow wag is usually mechanical , double check everything in the tail paying particular attention to the linkages
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Old 02-09-2018, 05:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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i rebuilt the tail and lightly sanded down the ball links on the tail grips and the part that they clip into on the tail pitch slider. the wag is still there. the tail moves super smoothly when it's not attached to the tail push rod. Of course, when i attach it, it requires much more resistance to move, but still moves smoothly.

As i turn up the rpm's from 1900 to 2300, the frequency of the wag goes WAY up and the wag gets smaller in amplitude. Does that sound more like a vibration problem?

Last edited by WonderedUnder; 02-09-2018 at 09:09 PM..
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Old 02-10-2018, 02:44 AM   #5 (permalink)
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To check for vibration use the vibration analyser on the bench.

Remove main blades and unclip tail push rod before spooling up.

The tail should self center.

If you get a peak you should be able to convert the frequency to an rpm to work out the offending area. A frequency of 150Hz = 9000rpm pointing to the tail.
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:23 AM   #6 (permalink)
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when you say much harder to move is there any resistance at all? it should still move freely , have a look at the ball link on the end of the pushrod .
i have also had an issue with thrust bearings are they in the right way round , larger diameter bearing race is on the inside with the tighter one on the outside , there is anther test you can do to check the bearings . with all the blades removed and the tail pushrod unclipped from the servo end spool the heli up and try to move the tail slider it should move easily and not lock up , if it dos then there is a thrust race problem
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
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So no vibrations on the vibration analyzer. that's a good sign.

Thrust bearings are in the correct way, i checked and re-checked when i rebuilt the tail.

i'll check for lock up on the tail slider while spooled.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:58 AM   #8 (permalink)
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So i got the wag settled, but i'm not really sure if i'm just overpowering some minimal mechanical binding.

I put the ball link on the tail servo one hole closer, which has forced my tail limits in the vbar to be 115/118 to get max throw and then i turned the bec up from 5.1 to 8.2. It's a scorpion tribunus and this is the first time i have used one - i'm wondering if i had just turned the voltage up to begin with if that would have solved my problem.
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:55 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I don’t think increasing bec voltage fixed it. Increasing servo resolution seems like the right fix.
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Old 02-11-2018, 05:25 AM   #10 (permalink)
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When the tail is right you will know. It will be totally locked in. There will not be any slight wag or little kicks.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderedUnder View Post
So i got the wag settled, but i'm not really sure if i'm just overpowering some minimal mechanical binding.

I put the ball link on the tail servo one hole closer, which has forced my tail limits in the vbar to be 115/118 to get max throw and then i turned the bec up from 5.1 to 8.2. It's a scorpion tribunus and this is the first time i have used one - i'm wondering if i had just turned the voltage up to begin with if that would have solved my problem.
Your resolution was off. This is typical setup setup of vbar and I have done this on my helis to get a locked in tail. 115 and 118 are good numbers.
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Old 03-11-2018, 04:27 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderedUnder View Post
Just finished building my 2017 logo 550 (yes - it took me way too long) and got to maiden her. She has a slow tail wag at 1900 RPM's that increases in frequency at 2100 rpm's. FBL is vbar neo and tail servo is xpert r2t. The tail seems to hold when i punch the collective, but i want to get the wag sorted before i fly it.

Interestingly, when i built a logo 500se like 5 years ago, it had the same type of wag. The problem that time was the tail box wasn't on square, but i have gone over that like 3 times now and i really think i have it set right.

It really seems like something mechanical, but nothing is popping up that's obvious to me. tail moves relatively smoothly side to side, i wouldn't call it perfectly "butter", but definitely smooth.

Any ideas?
I had the same issue with 3 Logo 550 (new version)!
took me a lot of time to solve the problem.
Just replace your trust bearings in tail with another brand and your tail blades with smaller one. if you hs is more than 2400 80mm is perfect!
Believe me once you have done your tail is solid as it should be
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Old 03-12-2018, 05:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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So you also had bad tail thrust bearings?

Me too. Took me 2 months to find the problem.
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:42 AM   #14 (permalink)
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which other brand has them 4x8x3.5 ?

price €13.5 for 2 bearings

Thanks in advance
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Old 03-14-2018, 08:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filo View Post
which other brand has them 4x8x3.5 ?

price €13.5 for 2 bearings

Thanks in advance
MSH do. They're from the main grips of the mini Protos.
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Part # MSH41065
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Old 03-15-2018, 03:01 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filo View Post
which other brand has them 4x8x3.5 ?

price €13.5 for 2 bearings

Thanks in advance
I bought it from a local bearing shop for much less!
Not all kits have issue with thrust bearing, i believe the early versions had it, but for me the actual problem solver was 80mm tail blades.
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:14 AM   #18 (permalink)
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So is this really the fix? I have a brand new kit that I finished building in Oct and just maidened this past week and it has a terrible tail wag. I'm flying at around 1800, 1900, and 2100 rpm and in just a hover it's a slow wag. I tried messing with the gains and that didn't help at all and a buddy said there's likely a vibration though I'm not sure what that could/would be to cause the tail to act that way. I've had a number of helis and never had this problem before. I'm using an Xpert R1T servo and the entire tail is perfectly smooth, nothing catching or tight. I shouldn't have to replace brand new bearings and if that has been the case, has anyone reported this to Bryan at Mikado USA?
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:40 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtruk View Post
So is this really the fix? I have a brand new kit that I finished building in Oct and just maidened this past week and it has a terrible tail wag. I'm flying at around 1800, 1900, and 2100 rpm and in just a hover it's a slow wag. I tried messing with the gains and that didn't help at all and a buddy said there's likely a vibration though I'm not sure what that could/would be to cause the tail to act that way. I've had a number of helis and never had this problem before. I'm using an Xpert R1T servo and the entire tail is perfectly smooth, nothing catching or tight. I shouldn't have to replace brand new bearings and if that has been the case, has anyone reported this to Bryan at Mikado USA?

Check this thread. Many new Logo 550 V3 and 600 V3 has this tail wag issue. We think it's the new tail hub was not machined correctly or bad bearings
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...ht=hate&page=2
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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My thread is resurrected! Yes. It’s crazy, but the tail
Bearings fixed it.
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