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Goblin 280 SAB Heli Division - Goblin 280 Helicopters


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Old 03-12-2018, 02:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Can SAB pls respond!

Guys.

I bought a 280 and I am absolutely sick of trying to resolve the tail wag issue. I put a new boom, tried all the tips on this forum and seeing the rest of the goblin fans trying to resolve this issue. I get rid of wag by then the tail has absolutely no authority left.

I own plenty other gobs and dont have this issue. Thy fly perfect and tail is always locked.

Your promo videos watching the pros flying make it look easy so besides throwing a ton of videos showing it flying perfect and issue freehelp everyone out with a video/tips telling us what the hell is wrong with the tail and help us resolve it.

So please come out and say something or do something to help your customers out.
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Old 03-12-2018, 03:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I managed to solve the tail wag issue, I took the sab tail servo out and put an align one in. Its spot on now. I have had 2 fireballs and both had the Same wag issue. I stripped on of the fireballs and put the servos in a oxy3 and its perfect. But for some reason both my sab tail servos hate being in a fireball.
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Old 03-12-2018, 03:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think some people here might be able to help. I don't own one personally but different FBL, headspeeds, governing and tuning will all play a role and no solution will fit everyone's needs. If you have issues why don't you post your setup and people who own one can help.

Again I don't own one but maybe speeding up the tail might help? Increase your headspeed?

Cheers!
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Can you link up your previous thread(s)? I couldnt find them by searching.

PLENTY of fireballs flying like one would expect a goblin to. I have had 2, both have been amazing after some FBL tuning. I have flown with BK and SAB servos- neither have been better or worse for the heli. I have flown the stock plastic, and the FG bodywork.
The iKon/brain FBL has needed MUCH more tuning than on previous helis- that I will say. I can do anything on this heli that I do with my larger ones.
Post up your:
FBL (FBL settings, gain, PID...etc)
Headspeeds
what batteries and blades
- let us try and walk you through tuning this little guy.
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Old 03-12-2018, 09:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Its a sensitive tail, I had wag with MKS and SAB servo, on neo. I tried 8 million different things. I installed a friends beastx donated to the cause as he felt pity and the wag is GONE. He has neo with no wag.

Watch the german chaps video with fireball at the end he posts his settings in the video, he has altered some of the expert values in tail. The d gain is raised a bit from zero I believe. Don't quote me though.

Also a friend has mini ikon on his now and it has zero wag. And his had wag before with neo.

I haven't figured it out, you can try buying lynx brand tail thrust bearings, they are apparently a higher quality.

You're not alone I build any goblin pay no attention and the tail is perfect. These 280's we fuss and fuss and they're jittery. Watch pro vids carefully.... they're wagging too sometimes
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:21 PM   #6 (permalink)
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If you are running Spirit, make sure you aren't using to high of a Piro Consistency. Keep it on the lower side of the recommended range until you get the rest of the tail tuning done.
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Old 03-13-2018, 06:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Don't expect SAB to come here and help out. Just something I have never seen them do.

Sounds like you just may have a tuning issue, assuming mechanically everything is good. If you haven't dove much into tail tuning, now might be a good time to start working there. I have learned a ton in the last month or so in this area. Once you get some experience working with PID settings it is amazing how much better you can get setups to perform that you were previously happy with.
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:04 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default SAB 280 Tail

Hi Everyone

Thanks for the replies. I am currently running a beastx on mine and tried many things to tune this little guy till the tail remains rock solid.

Wags never go away. On calm weather, its fairly decent. On windy days, its worse. I can never set it to a point like my other goblins where it is just 99% of the time, perfect. very frustrating. I dont have a clue what my headspeed is. I just listen to it. I set my end points on throttle and fly at 85% flat line most of the time else it cant tic toc decent enough any lower.

on my FBL unit. I had to turn dial 1 very slightly under mid. Dial 2 slightly below mid. Dial 3 is turned open at about 75% to get the tail stopping power UP else the tail is way too soft when stopping from piros.

I had to set parameter menu F to "red" to enable roque compensation.

I had to set Parameter menu D to blue flashing so it piros nice and clean during high speed runs..

Ive seen plenty videos where the stock kit tail stops dead at point and holds the tail at some ridiculous high speed flying and i hear no wag. So all I really want is the secret. Share with us how they managed to get that right on their fireballs and the rest of us are constantly trying to get ours to hold up.

did they use existing tail servo? sanded the shaft? shimmed the shaft, replaced the boom, tail grips, how low is their gain? whats their head gain like on different gyros. just some advise as this heli does not fly perfectly out of the box like the rest of their line. It needs serious tweaking to make it fly "decent". I want to fly it with confidence like I do the rest of their range not worrying about getting some extreme crazy wobble when low and end up crashing it...
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I have reached out to the SAB USA team to find out who is still flying BeastX, if any. Sadly I think that the videos you refer to as using FBL units that have PID tuning capabilities like Neo, iKon, Spirit, Spartan, etc. I used AR7200BX units in the past which are essentially BeastX units and I always was told that the tail was hard to tune. At that point in my progression I never pushed a heli nowhere to find any tail issues but some of this "reputation" caused me to shop around for a new FBL unit.

I am not telling you to change FBL I am just stating what I know/heard.

As I said I am reaching out to find someone with BeastX experience who could help out.
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:29 AM   #10 (permalink)
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The only "generic" advice I have received so far from my teammates is to make sure the bearing is smooth and that there is zero play on the boom, even inserting some 3M tape to tighten the boom fit on the frame.
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:40 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I can't speak BeastX language. Different menus don't compute with me. If you can state what those menus do, possibly. Have you tried going to the BeastX forum to ask for assistance there or possibly reading about some basic tail tuning?. No bad criticism, but it sounds like you are just hunting with your settings.

In general too high P-gain will cause a fast wag and it has a noticeable sound to accompany. I-gain is your tail holding power...too low or too high of a setting and you can get a slow wag or oscillation. Adjusting this a little higher can resolve some minor wag issues on occasion. D-gain is adjusted for better stops by increasing if they are sloppy or soft.

Good luck with your issue.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Hi. Those beastx units are still very very widely used. Till today Duncan bossian still uses them and u can see it on his latest goblin helis till today.

I use it till today because on every heli I fly the tail is rock solid from maiden and I never have to go mess with p gains and this gains or ever have to connect my Heli to a computer to iron out issues.

If u set the tail up mechanically perfect on a beastx u done!, which is super easy to do, u won’t need to do anything else on a beastx to get a rock solid tail. I do piro flips, high speed backwards funnels etc and till date have to see my tail loose grip in air or struggle with wag issues. And I own a ton of helis.

What I have DEFINITELY seen on this 280 forum is ton of people having issues with this particular Heli and they all using different gyros. One post a gentleman moved from ikon to beastx and solved his problem!! so I highly doubt it has to do with gyro. A lot of changes in FBL settings yes because mechanically this Heli has an issue with the tail.... that’s just my opinion..

Right now I’m trying to find the right setting on my beastx to solve this issue

Btw. I have colleagues here where I live struggling as well. One has vbar, the other ikon (the latest and greatest). Mine still holds better than theirs and I fly harder than they do with higher headspeed.. but it’s still a struggle with intermittent wags which just refuse to go away..

With respect to the tape, not needed. There is no play with my fiberglass boom. My tail has been way better with this boom.

And thanks for trying to help by reaching out. Looking for someone with my gyro to advise what he did to solve it. That’s all. (While others with ikon/vbar etc find theirs)
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hi JRman83. Dial 3 on my gyro adjusts the holding/stopping power. Turning this left/right is same as ikon guys plugging into laptop and increasing/decreasing values.

With beastx everything is adjusted by button and lights. On the unit itself i enter whats called parameter menu and adjust the D parameter for other tail behaviors. Quite easy and never let me down till today.

Gyro gain thru my radio.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:46 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Understand. Most of the people I know have moved away from BeastX. And I heard a lot of tail horror stories. Now it seems you have gotten to manage that and yes pro pilots still use it. It may very well be that additional features on other FBL systems also were the reason why some people migrated away from BeastX. Whatever it is, I find it difficult to find people flying it from the pilots I can reach out to. I had a buddy who was my "BeastX expert" and I have asked for his help a couple of times but he has been offline since December hopefully he is just on winter hiatus but I PM'd him hopefully he can assist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moocow View Post
Hi. Those beastx units are still very very widely used. Till today Duncan bossian still uses them and u can see it on his latest goblin helis till today.

I use it till today because on every heli I fly the tail is rock solid from maiden and I never have to go mess with p gains and this gains or ever have to connect my Heli to a computer to iron out issues.

If u set the tail up mechanically perfect on a beastx u done!, which is super easy to do, u wont need to do anything else on a beastx to get a rock solid tail. I do piro flips, high speed backwards funnels etc and till date have to see my tail loose grip in air or struggle with wag issues. And I own a ton of helis.

What I have DEFINITELY seen on this 280 forum is ton of people having issues with this particular Heli and they all using different gyros. One post a gentleman moved from ikon to beastx and solved his problem!! so I highly doubt it has to do with gyro. A lot of changes in FBL settings yes because mechanically this Heli has an issue with the tail.... thats just my opinion..

Right now Im trying to find the right setting on my beastx to solve this issue

Btw. I have colleagues here where I live struggling as well. One has vbar, the other ikon (the latest and greatest). Mine still holds better than theirs and I fly harder than they do with higher headspeed.. but its still a struggle with intermittent wags which just refuse to go away..

With respect to the tape, not needed. There is no play with my fiberglass boom. My tail has been way better with this boom.

And thanks for trying to help by reaching out. Looking for someone with my gyro to advise what he did to solve it. Thats all. (While others with ikon/vbar etc find theirs)
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moocow View Post
Hi JRman83. Dial 3 on my gyro adjusts the holding/stopping power. Turning this left/right is same as ikon guys plugging into laptop and increasing/decreasing values.

With beastx everything is adjusted by button and lights. On the unit itself i enter what’s called parameter menu and adjust the D parameter for other tail behaviors. Quite easy and never let me down till today.

Gyro gain thru my radio.
Well then by all accounts and what you describe it sounds more like the heli. I remember in the beginning a few having the issue on here and thought they explained how they resolved. I assume you have searched those out though and none helped. SAB does not get personal with any of their patrons - at least not on this website. Hopefully one day they will break through that barrier. Until then, hope you find your issue.
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
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It may be that on a heli with few issues the BeastX works just fine but when issues start to creep in, the lack of conventional adjustability in the BeastX leaves it lacking compared to other FBL units that support a full suite of adjustments.

In other words, the BeastX may be ok on 95% or more of heli's but isn't flexible enough to deal with issues on the remaining few heli's.

I don't fly BeastX these days preferring the flexibility and features of other units but I know it is capable of flying very well. I suspect that there is an underlying issue here somewhere in the tail setup that the BeastX just can't deal with.

I had a few similar issues with a G420 that would not stop wagging, but this was fixed by changing out servos, rebuilding and smoothing the tail several times and eventually getting enough flights on it to bed it in (as well as extensive FBL tweaking). It took 20+ frustrating flights but it got there eventually and is almost perfect now.
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Old 03-14-2018, 04:31 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Ive got a BeastX unit on my Fireball aswell, and I also had lot of wag. I cant remember if I got the tail sorted perfectly but what I did, was to change the tailpulley to the aluminum one, and change the tail dynamic dial 3 , to around 2 o clock, left the dial 2 at 12 o clock, and dial 1 at 10 o clock. Now, I m using BeastX v3 so it could be a bit different for you, but i think the dials do the same on newer versions.

Thing is, Im not sure how much this helped mine copter, since I crashed it some two months ago due a loose set-screw, and havent flown since then.
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