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250 Class Electric Helicopters 250 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 03-23-2018, 04:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Disappointed in (my?) Align

What a joke.

So...I guess I'm through with the Trex 250 and possibly Align altogether.

After hours and dollar$ trying to bring a older 'pro' back to life I've just learned that the DISGUSTING of amount of slop in the tail rotor isn't due to wear or poor assembly...but actually how it came out of the friggin factory?!?!..and damned near unfixable?! You have GOT to be kidding me. I ALMOST pulled trigger on NEW tail rotor assembly and how LIVID I would have been to anticipate delivery and with it the cure to tail slop only to (potentially) see the same slop in a brand new one! And none of this even guarantees any of the tail wag is cured...?!
Unbelievable.
For years I've put Align on a pedestal and this whole thing has me asking why. Of all the stuff I've read about tail wag and slop...I don't recall seeing any chatter from Align regarding this turd.
So far my ownership of a trex 250 has ONLY polished up my parts ordering skills and lightened my wallet.
What a pointless money pit.
At least I can get a third of what I've got in it on ebay. Maybe I'll even throw in the Align build towel that's on its way with the THE LAST $50 of pointless parts I'll spend on this pos.

I'd like to say my next choice would be the Oxy2 but...$18.50 for friggin main gear is just simply retarded.

Guess it's back to Blade.
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
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ive heard align 250 is a pain. the rest are good.
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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What disappoints me is, not only did that much slop make out to consumers, but that it was never really resolved. I've got the 'new' tail with the single, bigger bearing instead of two/w spacer but that doesn't seem to matter as I've still got MAD slop. And again...this may not even cure the tale wag..so even if I do get rid of slop it may be pointless as diminishing wag is the point.
I'm just blown away disappointed that Align sold slop at all...and then a replacement that (seemingly) isn't any better?!

This is the kind of crap that non-align users should be saying about other brands followed by, "I should've went with Align". But my experience is the opposite...and I'm surprised, disappointed and frustrated. ...and the cost of a Blade 360cfx in the hole and still without a flyable model.

I'll fool with the parts I have coming only BECAUSE they're coming but, for me, the sun is setting on the Money Pit 250.
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Old 03-23-2018, 07:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Pretty much all I've read on the 250 has been tail problems for many years .
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Old 03-23-2018, 07:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I just happened to see this thread while going to mark all threads read and thought I might add my own observations. I have owned two 250 SE's since they were introduced and have never had an issue with the tail. I have used a stock GP 780 gyro on my stock one (upgraded with all Align aluminium upgrades) and most have said it is a terrible gyro but I have not found that. I also have a Spartan Quark on my scale bodied 250 SE and that operates very nicely. I agree that there is slop (mine noticeable in the grip to hub on the tail) but if it was tight as some of our larger helicopters are, it would be way too twitchy for all but the best pilots out there, in my opinion. I have no slop from the servo to the pitch hub or whatever the part is that has to two links to the grips. I use the largest blades on the scale bird and the medium blades on the stock one. The only one that has ever crashed was the scale 250 and each time (twice) all moving shafts were replaced as well as the flybar (yah, both still use that). One item that needs to be paid close attention to is the distance of the ball on the servo arm from the center of the servo. Mine is set at 4.3mm which was the closest distance on all the servo arms available. Both mine are set the same as I had read of the tail becoming completely insane if you got the ball out too far. Take care.

Don

PS. I am antique enough to enjoy flying Blade CP's and I have lots of them.
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Old 03-23-2018, 07:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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slop like this?

Oxy2 tail pitch slider wear (0 min 13 sec)


Nature of the beast, welcome to the world of micro
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Ouch, that's a lot. My slider is tight with only the grip to hub having some axial slop. I would say that slider is pretty much bunged.

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Old 03-23-2018, 11:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Yeah I think that is a better definition of 'disgusting amount' of slop. I'm similarly surprised at that much slop in a Lynx. That from manufacturers of 'upgrades'?! Which begs the question..how does one upgrade a lynx? ...microheli?
(j/k)

I did find a washer that (so far) has made tremendous difference in my tail slop. Got the idea from the genius behind the 'crush spacer' video. As a hail mary I dug through all my align parts looking for a washer the same OD as the bearing but a big enough center to not interfere with inner race.

The rotation is compromised but only just slightly so obviously the geometry isn't 100% correct. I imagine the center race and outside race are under conflicting pressures so it may not last under force but the difference is now amazing and worth a shot. Again...tail slop may not have anything to do with wag...and maybe the slop is a non issue under so much centrifugal force anyway. Also changed servo so as to try the 'control ball 4.3mm from center' theory.
(shrug)
Batt charging...

Last edited by Tech 4 9; 03-23-2018 at 11:42 PM..
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:27 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech 4 9 View Post
I'd like to say my next choice would be the Oxy2 but...$18.50 for friggin main gear is just simply retarded.
Guess it's back to Blade.
Blade got quite expensive in parts if I compare the 2012-2015++ years.
I used an Excel table to compare replacement prices for my EOL Blade 4503D.

Compared it (price, x2 / x3 quantity) once with KDS...

But they usually sell two main gears with a replacement.
And two Helical gears (Schrägverzahnt) in one box are not that expensive either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech 4 9 View Post
I've just learned that the DISGUSTING of amount of slop in the tail rotor isn't due to wear or poor assembly...but actually how it came out of the friggin factory?!?!..and damned near unfixable?! ......
...see the same slop in a brand new one! And none of this even guarantees any of the tail wag is cured...?!
Sounds very much like a Blade 130X "Dauerbaustelle"?

Solution will probably be (I am writing this not having read Trex250 threads in detail, never flying a 250 on my own, assembling or tuning one):

Throwing away several tail Align parts and (complete) replacing the tail with higher-quality tuning parts (this often is sadly not very true, so you need to double check) from 3rd party vendors.

Basically this is how 130X owners used to work with their bird....
This is how I would handle it personally (if tuning parts are available) if I "möchte meine Nerven schonen".

Question: Do you already own a MKS DS95i or similiar?

What I heard here and there (cross reading threads/forums) MUST-HAVE move is also a more expensive high-quality tail servo on a Trex 250?!!!

Other 250 threads might highlight this once you have fixed a little bit the mechanical side....

Are you READY to do that?
Yes? Go for tail tuning parts.
No? You better send back all parts to the dealers / Align.


Trex250 - Der Weihnachtshubschrauber (in German): https://www.rc-heli.de/board/showthread.php?t=261746

Hopefully you get it translated from German by Google & Co.

Good luck with your project!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech 4 9 View Post
Guess it's back to Blade.
Well, you could check what the experiences are of new owners of the Blade 270 Fusion which has been recently released.
It probably would be wise to wait a bit more...

----------------

IMHO you can not compare 450 vs 470 to a "250 biest".
A "Align Trex 250" is another spaceship...

You might be happier in saving your nerves and investing and into something more known to work like Blade 450X (V2) / Align 470LM/470LP....please check available threads for tail quality before (I do not own it personally).


The funny story is:

Even my Blade 4503D (paddle) flew with the crappy E-Flite G210 gyro.
It only had a E-Flite DS76T and a Spektrum H3060MG tail servos on it.
Never had ANY (mechanical) tail issues!
The Blade tail "overlived" two crashes on green (Wiese, höheres Gras) very well.

I will replace the G210 with Tarot ZYX gyro (supports 760us) as an (hopefully) alternative to a Quark gyro I have lying around here for my "failed Walkera V120D02s 2013 project" (got a 2nd ZYX-S V1 which now supports Spektrum satellite with cable adapter).

I will probably put on a ALZRC DM1531T tail midi servo on my Blade 4503D; didn't like H3060MG. Also supported only 270Hz.

---

Honestly, I never read about Blade 450X (V2 = 4 MG servos, maybe better motor) to have dramatic tail issues and 450 3D and X share 1:1 same mechanical parts!
My friend has a 450X V1 with DS76T. He still flies it with AR7200BX. He also NEVER had any tail issues!

If I had to choose for myself, I would probably put this "250 project" by side, and get a used Blade 450X V2 or (used/new) 470LM/LP (they sell for about 200-280EUR the NEW kit incl. motor/ESC) or something completely different.

250er tuning costs, time, new expensive micro tail servo....

----------

Anecdote to make you smile:

My last (very heavy) 4503D crash (no green, into roof, hard fall onto 2nd roof and street=beton!!!) needed a few new mechnical tail parts (and my repair corrupted another plastic part which I had to replace).
I expect the tail to be working 100% again.

Better should have got a new kit adding up all prices (incl. tail servo) Blade got quite expensive in pairs....especially EOL....NOT funny!


What have I learned from my "not-really-needed" 3rd crash?

Only
do hovering when I adjust the "Blattspurlauf / 1st flight" on a table when it is dark and middle of the night at our bakery building (we have light outside at that grocery store so I had to choose this lonley place to get it back into air and I did not want to wait for the next day and sun).

However, it got quickly so much fun being back in the air after repair and this controlled first flying softly some MILD curves for a few adjustment lipos with the street and bakery light in the night...well, should NOT have done that in the dark.

Lesson learned?
Somehow it is important to know when to stop, isn't it?

Viele Grüße / Best regards from Germany

Thomas
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Old 03-24-2018, 12:01 AM   #11 (permalink)
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If you buy a Chevette and say Chevys suck then you you deserve the experience you got...
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Old 03-24-2018, 02:33 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I didn't think I was buying Chevy. Blade is Chevy. Thought I was buying (at least) a Toyota/Honda. Actually, back when I formed this opinion 11 yrs ago Align was the Ferrari of rc helis...which is why I think it stings so much. In truth, my opinion was formed based on the beautiful blue 450SE. At the time, I couldn't afford a 'real' tx (dx6i) let alone a 'real' rc heli which was the helis like the Trex. I could afford the Chevy Blade CP Chevette and just knew, in my goofy little mind that the trex(insert model) was just light-years ahead of my Chevette CP. When recently considering the Money Pit 250 for purchase I just assumed that if they were the shit back then and still around today... I literally thought, "how many blade helis have comngone and the old trex is still rockin it. It's like the 'Honda civic' of rc helis. Been around for years...parts availability must be through the roof..mods and fixes should be many and all worked out". I just had it all wrong and made assumptions.
Kinda the point of this thread. I didn't know Align produced a 'Chevette' and I never imagined all the tail wag chatter and forum talk leading nowhere.
So I guess the torque tube of the newest dfc was the fixall to tail issues? Was tail wag limited to belt drive? Does the design of the new one somehow make up for the lack of flybar? Cg change perhaps?

Anyway, my anti-slop washer trick didn't matter. Even though slop is gone wag is actually worse. Before it was more of a twitch. Now its literally a 45° or more wag.

The blade fusion 270 was a good suggestion. I forgot about it.

Last edited by Tech 4 9; 03-24-2018 at 03:13 AM..
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Old 03-24-2018, 03:38 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Compared to the other align kits I must say the 250 is the worst. Especially if you got a bigger trex and just wanted a small yard flyer. It's the biggest disappointment expecting a great heli yet ending up with a close to unfixable money pit.
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Old 03-24-2018, 08:03 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I had my share of troubles with a Trex 250 Pro DFC. I think it's kind of a cursed model for Align. It's pretty much a bigger heli scaled down and it didn't work out that well. I've since replaced it with an Oxy 2. It's a lot better, but still not free of issues. It's kind of heavy for a 250. That's one thing about the Align 250, mine was fairly light after a few weight saving mods. I really hated that meat grinder of a TT tail though. I had to adapt it to fit sub-micro servos. I don't know what Align was thinking putting 15 gram micro servos on a 250.
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Old 03-24-2018, 08:26 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigHB View Post
I had my share of troubles with a Trex 250 Pro DFC. I think it's kind of a cursed model for Align. It's pretty much a bigger heli scaled down and it didn't work out that well. I've since replaced it with an Oxy 2. It's a lot better, but still not free of issues. It's kind of heavy for a 250....
Would you recommend a Oxy 2, or is it just another trex 250 with fewer issues? Does it have better disc loading? As you said the 250 is heavy I hated it.
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Old 03-24-2018, 08:44 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I'm running the stretch version of the Oxy 2 which is almost exactly the same size as the Align 250. I think it's a much better heli. There is that video of tail slider wear further back, but that's just wear. You could fix that with replacement of some inexpensive parts. The tail is really nice with the Oxy 2 out of the box. The servo geometry is a lot better on the head and the head is nicely made with good tolerances.

The main thing negative I have to say about the Oxy 2 is the weight. If you're careful you can get that down a bit. I went to a plastic canopy that saves some weight. If you use a micro size controller with JST connectors instead of a mini size controller with standard JR connectors that will save some weight. Basically my Oxy 2 is thirty grams heavier than the Trex 250 with the same electronics. Though I'm running the FE version with a metal tail and head, but my Trex had that as well. The plastic version of the Oxy 2 saves some weight, but it's not a huge amount.

One other complaint is I don't like the stock carbon-plastic main blades much, pretty thin and flimsy. I'm actually running Align 250 blades on mine which are a lot stiffer. The Zeal blades might be a step up from the Align blades, but they're more expensive and I've heard of quality issues with that brand.
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Old 03-24-2018, 10:40 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Mmm maybe i should consider not getting one then since its heavier than the 250. Doubt that cube conversion will fix the disk loading of the oxy 2
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Old 03-24-2018, 12:04 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I can appreciate OP's frustration. I've owned 10 or so 250's and currently have five. They are certainly the most frustrating heli I've ever had. It is also no secret that they have issues.

The 250 tail does have some slop, well more slop than it should, but they fly fine like that. Its the tail binding that is what causes the wag. If Align really cared, they would have offered complete replacement gearbox/boom/tail assembles for a reasonable price like $50. Then people could just buy that and stop getting nickle and dimed to death trying to figure out what was bad.
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Old 03-24-2018, 12:34 PM   #19 (permalink)
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It isn't the "slop" in the tail of the older 250 as much as the single arm trying to move the pitch slider. On the 250 Pro DFC kit they put the nice double arm tail assembly on there along with the shaft drive. Works like a champ.

Unless you really want a 250 size heli the 450L kit without electric or main blades can be had for $130.

Watch out for Align kit tail servos though. I've had 2 that didn't work very good. The tail servo that came with my 250 pro kit allowed a bunch of tail wag and now with an MKS tail servo it's the best 250 experience I've had so far.
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Old 03-24-2018, 01:09 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakky View Post
I can appreciate OP's frustration. I've owned 10 or so 250's and currently have five. They are certainly the most frustrating heli I've ever had. It is also no secret that they have issues.

The 250 tail does have some slop, well more slop than it should, but they fly fine like that. Its the tail binding that is what causes the wag. If Align really cared, they would have offered complete replacement gearbox/boom/tail assembles for a reasonable price like $50. Then people could just buy that and stop getting nickle and dimed to death trying to figure out what was bad.
Thanks yakky. Exactly my point.

I've actually sat with thumbs hovering over phone keyboard WANTING to redact the '...and possibly align altogether' part of my original post because I REALLY DO ENJOY THE TREX 150X and recognize it's quality but then I remember...align never released a fix for the 250 but instead released another model?! ...WITH ALMOST THE SAME ISSUE?! (I say almost because I don't own the new one so do know this for sure..but it sound like it)

Currently, my tail servo ball is at the 4.3mm from center and wag is nutz so tonight I'm gonna go another hole out and see if there's change.

As frustrated as I am/get I can't let this go yet. People (like yakky) are getting them to fly so obviously they do. I had mine not too bad when I posted the 'milestone' post but even then I could tell tail was sketchy with even minute inputs.
Admittedly, I did bite this off knowing it was a 'project' but I totally thought there would be a segue from tinkering/spending into piloting at some point. Hell, I haven't even started crashing the thing yet!
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