Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > 250 Class Electric Helicopters


250 Class Electric Helicopters 250 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


Like Tree20Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-29-2018, 07:00 PM   #41 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,613
 

Join Date: Feb 2015
Default

I was thinking about this today and what is surprising to me is that the Blade 300x is only a bit bigger but doesn't have tail issues, even with tail components that are made from the crappiest of plastics. The tail box and assembly look like they belong on a Wal-Mart toy. Strange.
yakky is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-29-2018, 07:44 PM   #42 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 236
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Dec 2017
Default

Dang it. We need to kill this thread or I won't be able to sell mine!
J/k..kinda.

Received the blade balancer today. I added a SMIDGE of tape to one. Doubt it was a issue. (shrug)
Parts tomorrow but about the only thing to be any kind of excited about is the updated metal pitch slider...which I'm curious about but have sneaking suspicion it won't help.
I guess main goal now is just to keep it intact and sellable.

I did also reread the align instructions regarding tail setup. It states to only set pitch slider in the dead middle..no pos pitch preloading. (I know I read that somewhere) but I'll try the dead middle setting (again) after new slider install. It also said to start your gyro settings at 50. HAHAHA!! Mine would wag so much at 50 a worm hole might open up!

I have a feeling that by Sat I'll know whether to prepare a coffin..(throat clear)..I mean a shipping box..for it or not. I'm pretty sure it's gonna go. I'm still learning orientation..something my trex 150x is helping with more than even my sim...so I'm not even really completely ready for larger heli. I'm in NO hurry at all for a 450 or over. 450 may even be my limit. It'll be quit a while before I own a heli that I'll have to 'take somewhere to fly' for safety concerns. Backyard flyers for the foreseeable future and I would need to be a way better pilot before a 450 size would be responsible in my little space.

I think the harder decision is gonna be oxy2 or oxy3? (want a 2 but depends on availability and preowned packages..doubt I'll go full new)
Tax return is in the mail.
I will say this..after wrangling the 250..anything else should be a dream.
windcatcher likes this.
Tech 4 9 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-29-2018, 08:52 PM   #43 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Oct 2010
Default

I use this tail servo - cheaper and lighter than the mks and still metal gear: https://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/...odID=SPMSH3060

I also did the tail mod from this thread - but if you go with it buy 2 sets at least - I broke one of the screws when I first installed it:
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=107276

That really tightened up the tail grips. I'm also using the align bat wing tail blades and MHS uBrain flybarless. I replaced all the cyclic servos with submicro kst's, but they were rather expensive - and crimped in jst connectors which I won't do again, but fit the plugs on the uBrain without extensions. Zeal 210mm for the mains.


I'm constantly playing with the advanced settings of the FBL, but I really don't have a wag anymore, but it took a couple of months.

Main gear was also replaced with a lynx upgrade, I have never stripped it, but was kind of expensive too. Just bought those blade clips - there is some back and forth blade wiggle that I would like to clean up and never saw those before. Head is now a DFC head but the swash has a tendency to loosen up. I rebuild the transfer tail crown gears using JB Weld, being careful not to get any in the bearing - they do slip of the shaft over time.

I do have to say though, the bigger heli's are lot more fun (and expensive to crash, but do not require purchasing the equivalent of another heli trying to get it to fly right with hours of wrenching). What you'll start doing is seeing bigger empty fields when your driving around and eventually you'll find your spot close to home.
__________________
Agile 5.5, Logo 550sx, X5, Oxy 3, Trex 450proV2, 250DFC #309
nflanagin is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-30-2018, 01:34 PM   #44 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jan 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech 4 9 View Post
Backyard flyers for the foreseeable future and I would need to be a way better pilot before a 450 size would be responsible in my little space.

I think the harder decision is gonna be oxy2 or oxy3? (want a 2 but depends on availability and preowned packages..doubt I'll go full new)
They both fly great, but the O2 definitely needs less space. Also takes less damage in a crash, although the 3 is not bad at all.

I try to stay in a 75' x 100' box. With a k110, k120, O2 and O3 to choose from, the O2 is the go to these days.

There are so many of both out there that they regularly pop up in the classifieds, usually with full electronics.
__________________
Compass Atom 5.5; Oxy 2/3/4
XK K110 K120
Wargamer is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-30-2018, 07:06 PM   #45 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 236
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Dec 2017
Default

Got the much anticipated parts in. Aluminum tail slider is super cool. Optimism.

Go got put it on....guess I need Dfc torque tube tail box for aluminum tail slider to work. Belt drive tail box geometry not right. (face in hands)

(sigh)

....just another thing.

....just another thing.

I don't even wanna put the bitch back together.
(looking for lighter and charcoal fluid)
(newly received trex build towel remains unopened in box)

Last edited by Tech 4 9; 03-30-2018 at 08:49 PM..
Tech 4 9 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2018, 07:19 AM   #46 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,613
 

Join Date: Feb 2015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech 4 9 View Post
Got the much anticipated parts in. Aluminum tail slider is super cool. Optimism.

Go got put it on....guess I need Dfc torque tube tail box for aluminum tail slider to work. Belt drive tail box geometry not right. (face in hands)

(sigh)

....just another thing.

....just another thing.

I don't even wanna put the bitch back together.
(looking for lighter and charcoal fluid)
(newly received trex build towel remains unopened in box)
Sucks man, there are so many tail incompatibilities on the 250, its nuts. Thats why I said align should offer a complete tail kit so you can do it in one order.
yakky is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2018, 09:08 AM   #47 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 481
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Carol Stream, IL USA
Default

OP
As you found out, the latest Align 250 tail pitch slider only works if you have the latest Align 250 tail assembly (in total). That is why I bought the 250 Pro DFC kit. By the time you buy parts individually you've paid for a kit.

There is also a reason the number one selling brand of helicopter kits uses shaft drive tails almost exclusively. If you want to try another helicopter kit with a belt drive tail you may find that the 250 wasn't your problem after all. Even if you buy another brand heli or a different 250 kit you're still going to need a quality tail servo. With little bitty helicopters the tail servo makes a big difference. Put your money where it will make a difference.
__________________
George
Align - 700N Helibug G290RC / 700X / 450L / 250 Pro DFC
Gaui - R5
Spektrum - DX20 / DX9 Black Editon
The Mechanic is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2018, 10:18 AM   #48 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 236
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Dec 2017
Default

I came in here to post something in particular but, being reminded of..

..'the number one selling brand of helicopters'..gave me pause.

Pfft. Pretty much what sucked me (and how many others?) into this rabbit hole.

My thumbs hover over keyboard trying to decide on which avenue to take here..

I gotta take a knee here for a sec..

WAIT! In desperation for some positivity Ill throw this out there...

It happened. I broke the upright orientation hover barrier in sim. As everyone says...it just clicked! I'd been practicing side and 45 hover for a coupla weeks. For the last two days some common phrases I've yelped when simming have been: "what is happening here?!" and "who are you?!" because..im flyin! I've actually been giggling! Now when model goes over my head or flies past me.it doesn't matter! I know what to do!
So freeing!

Think I'm totally ready for a 700 nitro now.




J/k

Last edited by Tech 4 9; 03-31-2018 at 10:33 AM..
Tech 4 9 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2018, 11:25 AM   #49 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 236
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Dec 2017
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mechanic View Post
OP
As you found out, the latest Align 250 tail pitch slider only works if you have the latest Align 250 tail assembly (in total). That is why I bought the 250 Pro DFC kit. By the time you buy parts individually you've paid for a kit.

There is also a reason the number one selling brand of helicopter kits uses shaft drive tails almost exclusively. If you want to try another helicopter kit with a belt drive tail you may find that the 250 wasn't your problem after all. Even if you buy another brand heli or a different 250 kit you're still going to need a quality tail servo. With little bitty helicopters the tail servo makes a big difference. Put your money where it will make a difference.
Could belted tail box be 'converted' to dfc? Perhaps replace gear shaft/tt with pulley shaft and belt?
I would imagine that if this could be done it would be fairly ubiquitous by now.
I opted for the belted tail on purpose as I read they could be more forgiving than tt in crashes and tail strikes. I've heard gear teeth strip if the tail even tickles a blade of grass. (exaggerated of course)

I feel that I'm only $50ish dollars away from at least reaching the 'I've done all I can do' point. My t-rash 250 came with a dfc head which lead me to believe the tail would be as interchangeable. Dumb, obviously, as that's where all the changes took place. Upon checking differences between belt and dfc tail I learned I also have the old ccpm swash plate...not the new dfc one. (shrug)
By now this bird is so close to being completely rekitted I might as well go for broke.
If I can't convert tail I'll at least do the metal pitch arm and new tail servo.

After all this at least I'll be able to give pretty good descriptor for ebay sale.

I'll offer it here first but I gotta get what I've got in it...

$1200....takes it.

(plus shipping...no electronics just airframe)
BUT WAIT...THERES MORE!

If you order now..you'll receive a FREE UNOPENED..NEVER FLOWN..trex build towel!


(tee hee)
Tech 4 9 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2018, 12:28 PM   #50 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,613
 

Join Date: Feb 2015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mechanic View Post
OP
As you found out, the latest Align 250 tail pitch slider only works if you have the latest Align 250 tail assembly (in total). That is why I bought the 250 Pro DFC kit. By the time you buy parts individually you've paid for a kit.

There is also a reason the number one selling brand of helicopter kits uses shaft drive tails almost exclusively. If you want to try another helicopter kit with a belt drive tail you may find that the 250 wasn't your problem after all. Even if you buy another brand heli or a different 250 kit you're still going to need a quality tail servo. With little bitty helicopters the tail servo makes a big difference. Put your money where it will make a difference.
I won't deny that an expensive servo will fix a lot of the 250 issues. However with a well sorted tail they fly fine on a $20 tail servo.
Tech 4 9 likes this.
yakky is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2018, 01:35 PM   #51 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 481
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Carol Stream, IL USA
Default

OP
The reason I'm posting is to try to give you the benefit of my experience without you having to do (and pay for) the same thing all over again.

The first 250 I bought was a Hobby King HK250GT. I finished out the kit with ALL Hobby King parts... servos, ESC, batteries, orange receiver, Robird G31 gyro, flybarless head; everything Hobby King. I knew going in it would be a big project to get it to work right. It was just for fun with cheap stuff.

I flew the heck out of that helicopter and did dozens of different upgrades over the years. I had a lot of fun working on it and flying it. It always flew "fine" ... but with varying degrees of tail wag. Always had varying degrees of tail wag.

Finally last year I decided I was done experimenting. I wanted the best 250 size helicopter I could get so I bought the 250 Pro DFC. As I mentioned the tail servo in the kit was a piece of junk. Not the first Align tail servo I've had trouble with. So yeah... I could have bought half a dozen $20 servos trying to find one that worked right but that was no longer my mission goal. So I bought what is reputed to be the best; the MKS DS95i. And as I've told you, the 250 pro with the MKS tail servo flies perfect every time. No tail wag... ever.

The whole belt drive vs shaft drive tail argument has raged for years and will never be concluded for everyone. I've had both, and the shaft drive works good without any reoccurring fuss about tension or wondering whether it's time to change out the belt before it breaks. And they do break without warning. The truth is anything bigger than a Blade MCPX is going to get torn up bad if you crash no mater what kind of tail is on it. You are doing the right thing; practice in the simulator and fly your helicopter carefully if you don't want it to crash.
Thomas.Heiss likes this.
__________________
George
Align - 700N Helibug G290RC / 700X / 450L / 250 Pro DFC
Gaui - R5
Spektrum - DX20 / DX9 Black Editon
The Mechanic is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2018, 05:14 PM   #52 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 236
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Dec 2017
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mechanic View Post
OP
The reason I'm posting is to try to give you the benefit of my experience without you having to do (and pay for) the same thing all over again.

The first 250 I bought was a Hobby King HK250GT. I finished out the kit with ALL Hobby King parts... servos, ESC, batteries, orange receiver, Robird G31 gyro, flybarless head; everything Hobby King. I knew going in it would be a big project to get it to work right. It was just for fun with cheap stuff.

I flew the heck out of that helicopter and did dozens of different upgrades over the years. I had a lot of fun working on it and flying it. It always flew "fine" ... but with varying degrees of tail wag. Always had varying degrees of tail wag.

Finally last year I decided I was done experimenting. I wanted the best 250 size helicopter I could get so I bought the 250 Pro DFC. As I mentioned the tail servo in the kit was a piece of junk. Not the first Align tail servo I've had trouble with. So yeah... I could have bought half a dozen $20 servos trying to find one that worked right but that was no longer my mission goal. So I bought what is reputed to be the best; the MKS DS95i. And as I've told you, the 250 pro with the MKS tail servo flies perfect every time. No tail wag... ever.

The whole belt drive vs shaft drive tail argument has raged for years and will never be concluded for everyone. I've had both, and the shaft drive works good without any reoccurring fuss about tension or wondering whether it's time to change out the belt before it breaks. And they do break without warning. The truth is anything bigger than a Blade MCPX is going to get torn up bad if you crash no mater what kind of tail is on it. You are doing the right thing; practice in the simulator and fly your helicopter carefully if you don't want it to crash.
Your input is appreciated. My response was in no way meant to be derogatory to you or your opinions. Keep 'em comin.

I'm catching up.

Everyone's input and opinions are appreciated.
Tech 4 9 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2018, 06:38 PM   #53 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 481
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Carol Stream, IL USA
Default

No I didn't take offense to anything you said. I just realize what you're trying to accomplish and thought maybe I could help. The 250 is cool because it's the smallest "real" helicopter with a controllable pitch tail. Too bad they didn't get the tail right in the first place.

I've also got the Blade 130X (it is smaller but they don't make them anymore) and I had to buy the Microheli upgrade tail pitch slider for that one. I've actually bought 2 upgrade parts because I wore out the bearing on the first one.
__________________
George
Align - 700N Helibug G290RC / 700X / 450L / 250 Pro DFC
Gaui - R5
Spektrum - DX20 / DX9 Black Editon
The Mechanic is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2018, 07:29 PM   #54 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 236
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Dec 2017
Default

I was pretty interested in a 130x for a while but after disassembling and cleaning the linear servos in my nano cp two or three times I'm about done with them.
I understand there might be a rotory servo mod for 130x but haven't looked into it.
My Trex 150x is holding my attention pretty good for now.

Trying to figure out if there is a way to mod the belted tail box to use the aluminum pitch slider. Wondering if a combo of parts between old and new tail box would allow it. I don't think belt would even go through tt hole so I wonder if the dfc 'sides'..that hold the bearings..would transfer to belted tail mount..?..and allow for the belt pulley shaft instead of the gear shaft..?

Pfft...if it was that easy..blah blah.
I know. I'm reaching.

Last edited by Tech 4 9; 03-31-2018 at 07:43 PM..
Tech 4 9 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2018, 08:07 PM   #55 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 236
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Dec 2017
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yakky View Post
I won't deny that an expensive servo will fix a lot of the 250 issues. However with a well sorted tail they fly fine on a $20 tail servo.
I agree. I'll be trying a new servo. Current one is [email protected]

In your opinion can the BELTED tail even be sorted?..with todays fbl units?

Would you go as far as to say, "There's no such thing as a bad trex 250..there's just a bunch of..poorly setup..tr250's'..? (that should be my next t-shirt) Or are there actually many 250's that will just never fly without wag..?
Tech 4 9 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2018, 08:37 PM   #56 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 236
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Dec 2017
Default

After singing the praises of my tr 150x...

...guess what's on the fritz...

(well sure)
Tech 4 9 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2018, 09:28 PM   #57 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 481
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Carol Stream, IL USA
Default

The cure for the Blade linear servos is Deoxit D5. It's magic in a can and will make the servo work as good as new. No need to buy new servos. Just a little spritz of the stuff in the area of the circuit board behind the jackscrew of the servo.

The belted 250 tailcase has a different attach point for the pitch slider mechanism. It may be possible to change the shaft drive tailcase over to belt drive; I never tried that. I thought about it, but I never tried it.

I tried the Microheli metal tail pitch slider and used it for a long time. But it never really was "right"... it was just OK. Problem with it is there is only one arm where it attaches to the right side of the tailcase then it forks and attaches top and bottom to the slider bearing. In reality it wasn't really any better than the Align belt tailcase mechanism. I was however using a Hobby King tailcase. Everything else was Align or Microheli. By that time I had upgraded everything on the tail to Align except the tailcase including the bearings, shaft and blade grip assembly with the Align graphite tail blades. But I just could never get that arrangement to move with smooth authority under load.
__________________
George
Align - 700N Helibug G290RC / 700X / 450L / 250 Pro DFC
Gaui - R5
Spektrum - DX20 / DX9 Black Editon
The Mechanic is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-01-2018, 06:44 AM   #58 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,613
 

Join Date: Feb 2015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech 4 9 View Post
I agree. I'll be trying a new servo. Current one is [email protected]

In your opinion can the BELTED tail even be sorted?..with todays fbl units?

Would you go as far as to say, "There's no such thing as a bad trex 250..there's just a bunch of..poorly setup..tr250's'..? (that should be my next t-shirt) Or are there actually many 250's that will just never fly without wag..?
Ha, I might say they all are bad, but I haven't bought a new one just used ones people dump for obvious reasons. I honestly don't think either the shaft or belt is better. The new shaft tail with the double arm does have less slop, but in my experience friction/binding in the tail is responsible for most tail problems. The slop might account for the minor tail wag most seem to have.

And I guess that is worth mentioning, I have yet to see a 250 that holds its tail completely still. The all seem to wiggle just a few degrees while hovering. I think a lot of people expect them to hold completely still like a 700.
yakky is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-01-2018, 08:38 AM   #59 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 236
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Dec 2017
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yakky View Post
Ha, I might say they all are bad, but I haven't bought a new one just used ones people dump for obvious reasons. I honestly don't think either the shaft or belt is better. The new shaft tail with the double arm does have less slop, but in my experience friction/binding in the tail is responsible for most tail problems. The slop might account for the minor tail wag most seem to have.

And I guess that is worth mentioning, I have yet to see a 250 that holds its tail completely still. The all seem to wiggle just a few degrees while hovering. I think a lot of people expect them to hold completely still like a 700.
And, in your opinion, fbl mounting (particularly the ar7200bx)...inside the airframe or outside on the side as I've seen in photos?
I did mine upside down inside (where today's tail servos go) for cleanliness then read that 'contact from the sides of frame' could be a thing.

I can't beLIEVE my 150x is out now too. And RIGHT before the weekend. I was looking forward to applying my sim breakthrough irl.

I'm heli-less for the immediate future. I'll try the 'unplug the servos from board' thing on the 150x like we have to do with the nano cp when its servos go all weird but I honestly think it's developed a board issue..prolly stemming from a bad servo. Last flight I noticed elev servo and board stack were fairly warm.
Tech 4 9 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-01-2018, 09:10 AM   #60 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,613
 

Join Date: Feb 2015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech 4 9 View Post
And, in your opinion, fbl mounting (particularly the ar7200bx)...inside the airframe or outside on the side as I've seen in photos?
I did mine upside down inside (where today's tail servos go) for cleanliness then read that 'contact from the sides of frame' could be a thing.

I can't beLIEVE my 150x is out now too. And RIGHT before the weekend. I was looking forward to applying my sim breakthrough irl.

I'm heli-less for the immediate future. I'll try the 'unplug the servos from board' thing on the 150x like we have to do with the nano cp when its servos go all weird but I honestly think it's developed a board issue..prolly stemming from a bad servo. Last flight I noticed elev servo and board stack were fairly warm.
All of my 250s have the FBL mounted in the frame, but I'm not sure it matters much. What matters is how vibe free the heli is. Bummer about being down for the count. I think that is why so many of us learning to fly have so many helis.
Tech 4 9 likes this.
yakky is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1