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Low Head Speed Helicopters Low Head Speed Helicopter Setups and Flying info


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Old 04-30-2018, 08:21 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I bought the E5 and stretched it. You can build it stock as a 550 or you can stretch it to 600, 626, or 700 boom. For the E5SS you need the E7SE 700 boom, torque tube, boom supports, spur gears.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=799904
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Old 04-30-2018, 08:28 PM   #22 (permalink)
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999-308 Synergy E5 FBL/TT Kit
310-121 Helical Main Gear 121T
320-154 54T Spur Gear
320-111H 11T Spur Gear - Hard Coat
310-145 Blade Bolt Adapter 5mm
315-140 Tail Boom 812mm E7
320-500 Torque Tube E7
315-117 Carbon Boom Support Rod 580mm
315-111 Carbon Tail Control Rod 728mm E7
305-012H E5/E7SE 12T Pinion Hard Coat
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Old 04-30-2018, 08:29 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote from Codepox:

For the Carbon Tail Control Rod, the E7 one (315-111) at 728mm is on the short side to get a good engagement of the plastic links, this is because of the tail servo placement between the E7 and E5, I recommend using the 766 one and cut it down to 737mm.
706-306 Carbon Tail Control Rod (Comes at 770mm and cut it down to 737mm)

If you use 106mm or bigger Tail Blade, I recommend using the N7 Vertical Tail Fin which is 11mm longer for more ground clearance.
317-302 N7 Vertical Tail Fin

If you are using 696/716mm main blade, you are also going to need the 5mm Blade Bolt Adapter as well as M5x35mm screws and M5 Nylon nuts.
310-145 Blade Bolt Adapter 5mm
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Old 05-06-2018, 07:11 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I was flying today at 1160rpm getting 11:30 on 2 - 3300mah lipos.
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Old 05-06-2018, 10:21 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Nice . I see no mention of the vtx ?
Did you get a chance to try them? For mine it became a bit snappier all around, but not quite as got for autos as the rails, or at least what I was used to.

Ok so you have the logo 600se as well now do they compare now?
What feels different?


Is this giving you ideas of things to change on that one?

IMO it's great to get 10+ minutes of flying a larger heli even if it is at a lower head speed. You will find The comments from the observers seem to be very positive as well.
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Old 05-07-2018, 11:34 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I havenít tried the VTX yet. I wanted to get everything setup right first. The Synergy Helis once build just fly perfect.

For the Logo 600SE...I was flying it at 1260rpm and getting 10:30 minutes. I was having a issue with the tail...not wanting to turn left properly. I ran the head optimizer and then the tail optimizer. It flew a lot better. It seems to take a lot more tweaking to get the setup perfect. I still have some stuff I want to do to it. I ordered 105mm three blade set today to try. I want to change out my blade grips to the 690 ones with 5mm bolts holes. I have a new set of MKS665 and MKS669 servos I want to put on it and run everything at 7.2 volts. Donít get me wrong It flies great...just want to tweak my setup some more to get it perfect. It is a awesome low speed and medium speed Heli all on the same flight.

Really hard to say which is better.....they are both great Helis. I need to fly them more.
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Old 05-08-2018, 07:50 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Good idea about the 690 grips - I did the same to mine.

I'll bet the head design has something to do with the synergy perfection. Matt knows his stuff.
I've always liked a TT tail drive personally. Not to start a belt / TT debate because I have both.

I think the synergy advantage for this lower head speed stuff is the tail ratio and flexibility to raise it for these speeds.

Sounds like fun wherever you end up with your settings.
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Old 05-08-2018, 10:45 AM   #28 (permalink)
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And if you ~really~ want the tail to work well you can spend 15~20 minutes and get it to 5.45 to one with a slightly modified gear and some spacers or washers
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Old 05-09-2018, 07:41 AM   #29 (permalink)
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It has 54-11 gears now. I didnít know there was another gear ?
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Old 05-09-2018, 09:09 AM   #30 (permalink)
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that provides 4.9 ratio up front. The bevel gears both front and back on the E5 are 18 teeth. the E7's are 20 teet. I use a 20 tooth at the rear of the torque tube. the E7 gear has a little "bump" on it to space it out from the bearing, but a couple minutes on a lathe, (or in a drill press and using a file in my case), and that's gone. I also taper the flat back of the gear just a touch so it only contacts the inner race of the bearing. After this, you have to space the left gearbox sideplate a little further out to get the mesh right. Can use 3mm washers, but matt has some "thick washer" type spacers from some other product, i think they're 1.6mm, may be 2mm. After that, you have to of course add an equal amount to the spacer tube on the output shaft, between the gearbox halves. I have a collection of 6mm shim washers, so i stack some together. i think they were motorshaft washers at one point . took me about as long to type this as it does to do the actual modification. You lose a couple mm of pitch slider travel since the tail output shaft is moved over to the left , so i use the 766 tail output shaft. It's 4mm longer, so i get a net gain in tail pitch change. I get a LOT of pitch change with this mod, and a 5.44 tail (4.9 up front and 20/18 or 1.11 "overdrive" in the back). You need to watch the wear on the bevel gears as they're stressed a bit more. I stripped on last year at the omaha event. It had been flying that way about a year and a half, and my flights are near 15 minutes, so it had MANY hours on it. i replaced them over the winter, so probably have till mid 2019 till i have to do it again.
Using 696/116 blades, and at 1200ish you can let the heli drop from very high, on it's side till it hits terminal velocity, and then smoothly feed in full collective with some aileron for a huge high speed sideways loop,.. and the tail never blows out. That's running 16/16 collective, so the load is immense.
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Old 05-09-2018, 09:38 AM   #31 (permalink)
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That's what I'm talking about.
Not an option for a logo.. ( ok L700 maybe)
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Last edited by smittylube; 05-09-2018 at 12:47 PM..
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Old 05-09-2018, 11:31 AM   #32 (permalink)
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You really can't blame the designers/manufacturers for using such low tail ratios. Those of us that fly low rpms are in the minority and they have to market products for the majority, in order to be successful. If high tail ratios were offered, they'd risk someone thinking "I can get more tail authority on my 3000 rpm, 800mm bladed model!" and the resulting explosion would send shrapnel in every direction.

however, since we're in the low headspeed forum,.. did you know there are stock drive products pulleys that fit the synergy 516?,... my 516 tail is at 6.0 ratio

Many people actually do spin the little machines like the 516 at 2800+,.. so I doubt you'll ever see a ratio as high as 6.0 offered. Can you imagine how far that would shoot a tailblade if it came apart at nearly 18000?
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Old 05-09-2018, 12:06 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Thanks Gary for the information. I have to look at a E7 bevel gear.

With the 5.44 tail ratio...what would be the maximum rpm ?

I was flying it at 1160 - 1260 rpm. I have had it as high as 1560 rpm.
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Old 05-09-2018, 01:24 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I flew that ratio for quite some time with another power setup at 1760 on the head,.. and still using the 116 tailblades.

If you read around, some fly the stretched E5 at 2000 with 4.9 ratio, which would compute to 9800 on the tail. Doing the math, 9800/5.44 indicates 1801 on the head would be the same tail rpm, so I don't think you'll ever see a problem.

I don't know what the max tail rpm would be, but possibly the biggest benefit of the Synergy line is the 6mm tail output shaft, where others use smaller shafts. The tail is pretty bomb proof. I've had several strange looks from folks when explaining the gear ratio and they'd get a deer in the headlights look and say I'm gonna blow it up. On every occassion, I do the math with their ratio and headspeed,.. and I'm nowhere near what they're spinning.
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Old 05-09-2018, 05:45 PM   #35 (permalink)
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doing the math your tail rpm is 6174 @ 1260 and 7644 @1560
say you did the 5.44 ratio then your max at 1560 would be 8486 so roughly 800 rpm higher tail rpm 6854 at 1260

seems to make sense or the 3 blade to spice things up
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Old 05-09-2018, 09:37 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Definitely an advantage with the Synergy E5..being able to change gears to speed up the tail. I will need to order some parts.
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Old 05-11-2018, 05:49 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Just thinking out loud though - couldn't they just run smaller tail blades? So, for example if a modest ratio of around 5 to 1 was used.

My nitro .50s always ran 85mm tail blades and held just fine (target headspeed of 2000).

The other thing I have found slightly annoying that some manufacturers do is setting the boom length as short as possible thus allowing no flexibility in blade sizes. But, so it goes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by gwright View Post
You really can't blame the designers/manufacturers for using such low tail ratios. Those of us that fly low rpms are in the minority and they have to market products for the majority, in order to be successful. If high tail ratios were offered, they'd risk someone thinking "I can get more tail authority on my 3000 rpm, 800mm bladed model!" and the resulting explosion would send shrapnel in every direction.
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:57 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Have you tried the VTX yet? They should feel great at 1160
I keep going back and forth on my Logo and I am really starting to like them all around. Even at 1600 they are pretty quiet. Great pop and super cyclic feel. Very snappy flips and rolls. And now I'm even getting used to them for autos.
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Old 05-19-2018, 11:31 AM   #39 (permalink)
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No I havenít tried the VTX yet.....too windy today. Maybe Monday. I was just getting used to the new Heli and loving the way it flies. So I havenít taken the Rail 696mm blade off yet.
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Old 08-20-2018, 10:36 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I have been flying the VTX 696 main blades.I really love the blades and the Heli flies amazing. I am so glad I built this Heli. I like it at 1300 rpm. I have it set for 1300, 1400, 1500 rpm. It flies so smooth great to learn new moves / orientations. The E5 is so versatile, its perfect for low head speed....you can speed up the tail and run 116 mm tail blades.
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