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07-01-2018, 10:36 AM | #1 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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OXY3 255 motor runs very hot
I'm new to the OXY family and just got a OXY 3 255 built and flying this May. I've got about 10 flights on it so far but am noticing an issue.
My motor is coming down extremely hot after a 3 minute flight (sport acrobatics) and I have to wait about 5 minutes with the canopy off before I can touch the motor can without jerking my finger away. I'm wondering what might be the best way to address this. Here's my setup: Motor : LX8005 EOX 2214-4100KV v2 motor Pinion : 14T ESC : Castle Creations Talon 35 (using gov)
Tail blades : 47mm Max blade pitch : +-13 deg I'm flying either at 3402 or 3658 rpm right now. I haven't spent any time up at 3801 other than to check out that it works. From a mechanical perspective, I imagine that my gear mesh may be too tight or else my tail belt may be too tight (or both!). I tried to set things up as best as I could according to the descriptions in the manual but of course, this is my first OXY build so I don't have a lot to compare against. I'd be very curious to get people's thoughts on motor thermal issues with this heli. Do your motors get super hot when running at these higher headspeeds? (Note: The batteries are a little warm but definitely not hot.)
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* Gaui X3L, 450X, Tarot 450 Pro V2, OXY3, 300CFX, 180CFX, 130X, V120D02s, mCPX BL, mCPX v2, Super CP, nCPX BL * DX9, DX7 G2, Devo 10 & 7e w/Deviation, Turnigy 9x w/ er9x, DX6i Last edited by RoboHeli; 07-01-2018 at 11:01 AM.. Reason: Added cell count to batteries |
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07-01-2018, 10:45 AM | #2 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northern, VA
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I guess you are on 3S?
Depending on where you are located, could be that no matter what you run it is going to get very hot. On the other side the EOX motors do tend to run pretty hot. I used to run my in back to back 4min flights at 5-6 flights and was never able to tell any loss of power issues due to the heat.
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-Ben Oxy 2/3/4/5; XL 550/700; Protos 380/700 EVO; RAW; Jeti DS12 Carbon EGODRIFT Team, Lynx/Oxy Field Rep |
07-01-2018, 11:03 AM | #3 (permalink) |
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Oops, yes, I'm running 3S (edited my original post to reflect that).
I'm in the northeast US and while yesterday was in the 90s (F) last month, it was in the 70s and the motor still felt super hot when I was first maidening the heli. I'm just a little worried about damaging something if it runs too hot, I guess. I might try dropping the headspeeds down to the low 3000s since my flying style isn't that demanding.
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* Gaui X3L, 450X, Tarot 450 Pro V2, OXY3, 300CFX, 180CFX, 130X, V120D02s, mCPX BL, mCPX v2, Super CP, nCPX BL * DX9, DX7 G2, Devo 10 & 7e w/Deviation, Turnigy 9x w/ er9x, DX6i |
07-01-2018, 11:22 AM | #4 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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Running on 4s, my 2214 will often be hot enough that I pull my finger away after a few seconds; I'm sure on 3s it gets even hotter. The motor components can handle a LOT more heat than your finger can - I wouldn't worry about it since it sounds like your ESC and battery are ok..
On pinion mesh, my scientific approach is to push them together and then back it off a hair. For belt, the Oxy 3 will tolerate a range of tensions. If you only have 1 mm of belt deflection with driver pressure, you can loosen it until you have 2-3 mm of deflection and try that. For HS, I would say 3400 is a good place to start on the 255. If you are just doing sport or light 3D you can even go lower. The range you currently have set is not in any way problematic.
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07-01-2018, 01:04 PM | #5 (permalink) |
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I think I'll probably try dropping the HS a bit and put on a 13T pinion. A quick calc in Castle Link shows:
3200 - 84.1% 3400 - 89.4% 3500 - 92.0% which should presumably also help increase my flight times with the reduced load on the motor. When I change that, I'll go back and look at the pinion mesh and belt tension again based on the above.
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* Gaui X3L, 450X, Tarot 450 Pro V2, OXY3, 300CFX, 180CFX, 130X, V120D02s, mCPX BL, mCPX v2, Super CP, nCPX BL * DX9, DX7 G2, Devo 10 & 7e w/Deviation, Turnigy 9x w/ er9x, DX6i |
07-01-2018, 03:13 PM | #6 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
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Personally I would do it the other way around - check / reset gear mesh and belt tightness before you buy extra bits. I run 3S and 14T and 3,800rpm and my motor is fine (though it's usually cooler here).
Just about every time that I have had a motor run hot on any of my helis it has either been due to motor pinion mesh or belt too tight. For the sake of 5 - 10 minutes fettling you can check both of these straight away. |
07-01-2018, 04:05 PM | #7 (permalink) |
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I'll relax the mesh and belt and fly it again before I swap out the pinion.
What kind of flight times do you get on your 3S at 3800rpm? My main reason for looking into reduced headspeed is to get increased flight times. Once I get my mesh and belt sorted I'll see what kind of times I get and decide if I want to slow it down from there.
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* Gaui X3L, 450X, Tarot 450 Pro V2, OXY3, 300CFX, 180CFX, 130X, V120D02s, mCPX BL, mCPX v2, Super CP, nCPX BL * DX9, DX7 G2, Devo 10 & 7e w/Deviation, Turnigy 9x w/ er9x, DX6i |
07-01-2018, 04:16 PM | #8 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
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I get 4 minutes and land with the batteries between 3.7 and 3.8 volts putting 70 - 75% of capacity back (from memory - I also have a stretch OXY3 and OXY2 which tend to get more flight time)
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07-01-2018, 09:01 PM | #9 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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I have an EOX2214 on my oxy running 4s and it comes down hot after a 4:30 flight (sport/light 3d) Never had any issues.
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07-01-2018, 11:38 PM | #10 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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My lynx motor is also hot but is performing flawlessly flight after flight.
I even broke its shaft 2 times and the bearings are ok.
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|Michalis| ...let the flying be second nature! |
07-02-2018, 01:17 AM | #11 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jul 2016
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I believe we usually over estimate the actual temperature. Maybe you could quantity what the real temperature is?
However, checking the mesh and tail belt tension also doesn't hurt
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Michael Kraken 700 & 580; Oxy 4 MAX; Oxy 3 TE18 |
07-02-2018, 07:33 PM | #12 (permalink) |
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Good point, mulchi. I do have a thermometer I can bring with me to the field next time.
However, the fact that the motor is so hot that I can't touch it for more than a moment is a new thing for me. In comparison, the motors in my 450s (both Trex and Blade) come down very cool in comparison. I can keep my fingers on those motors as long as I like after I fly those bigger helis. The difference in subjective temperature is really what gave me concern.
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* Gaui X3L, 450X, Tarot 450 Pro V2, OXY3, 300CFX, 180CFX, 130X, V120D02s, mCPX BL, mCPX v2, Super CP, nCPX BL * DX9, DX7 G2, Devo 10 & 7e w/Deviation, Turnigy 9x w/ er9x, DX6i |
07-02-2018, 07:54 PM | #13 (permalink) | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2016
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Quote:
Quote:
Does your CC Talon 35 beep three times when you land? If so there is being an over current draw and the issue is in your ESC programming. The setup you are are using is fine but please verify the following: Use the Castle link to plug into your esc and go under the tab that says THROTTLE and verify that you have indeed marked that you are using a 14T pinion, 140 teeth main gear, 4100 KV motor and choose 6 Magnetic poles. After go into the tab that say MOTOR. By default the kHz drive frequency comes setup at 12KHz, that is wrong for your setup; it has to be set to 8kHz. The timming should also be at 5 degrees (medium). Kindly, - SpekBo
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- SpekBo Goblin 420, Oxy 4 360 stretch, Goblin Fireball, Oxy 3 Tareq Edition, Oxy 3 Speed, Oxy 2 190 FE, Blade 230S V2, Blade 130S, Blade McpS, Hirobo S.R.B Quark. Transmitter: DX8 Gen 2 |
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07-02-2018, 08:51 PM | #14 (permalink) |
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Hmm...I don't remember the ESC ever beeping at me when I land.
I just checked the settings that I downloaded into my ESC (I always save a copy of the settings on my PC). 14 pinion, 140 teeth, 4100KV motor and 6 magnetic poles But you're right the drive frequency was 12Khz! Wow, I never even thought to look at that and there you go. And of course, it says right here on the LX8005 web page that it should be set to 8kHz: https://www.lynxheli.com/product_inf...4f3234b721d06b Thank you for pointing that out!!! I'm going to change that and try it out as soon as it stops raining here (maybe the weekend???)
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* Gaui X3L, 450X, Tarot 450 Pro V2, OXY3, 300CFX, 180CFX, 130X, V120D02s, mCPX BL, mCPX v2, Super CP, nCPX BL * DX9, DX7 G2, Devo 10 & 7e w/Deviation, Turnigy 9x w/ er9x, DX6i |
07-02-2018, 09:23 PM | #15 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
I'm glad we discovered that, your motor will now run much cooler
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- SpekBo Goblin 420, Oxy 4 360 stretch, Goblin Fireball, Oxy 3 Tareq Edition, Oxy 3 Speed, Oxy 2 190 FE, Blade 230S V2, Blade 130S, Blade McpS, Hirobo S.R.B Quark. Transmitter: DX8 Gen 2 Last edited by SpekBo; 07-02-2018 at 10:01 PM.. |
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07-03-2018, 02:28 AM | #16 (permalink) |
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For me changing the PWM didn’t changed the temp.
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|Michalis| ...let the flying be second nature! |
07-03-2018, 04:22 AM | #17 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northern, VA
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If that works let us know. Never seen it make much difference, if any. Timing differences can make a lot of difference. The smaller motors run hotter as the rpms they are turning are 30k+. The EOX run hotter than other brands I have used also. However, one thing I always did was check after each flight. What I noticed was the heat was the same flight to flight once it reached the operating temp. It didnt continue to climb.
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07-03-2018, 10:31 AM | #18 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Aug 2016
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I volunteered and just ran the experiment .
Usually the formula goes this way: Motor KV x (Volts x cell meaning nominal voltage) x pole count ÷ 20. That formula should give you your proper kHz. Another way of doing it is by number of poles. This being a 6 pole motor in theory it should go as follows: The 6 pole motor means communication frequency is 3x the RPM (not 6x) of your motor ÷ by the number of seconds in a minute (60secs.). The LX8005 runs at about 30.000 rpm. Hence 30.000 ÷ 60 = 1500, the frequency it runs at is 1.5kHz. Now you take the number after the period (.) wich is 5 and do the following. 5 ÷ 1.5 = 10 The frequency it needs to run on your esc is 10kHz But there are exceptions and the LX8005 is one of them that's why the manufacturer is specific about what frequency we must use, 8kHz. Scorpion motors are also known to be specified to run at 8kHz. To back up the importance of this, i just tested it. I put 12kHz on my Castle 35, the motor, battery and ESC came down extreamly hot, so hot I got 3 beeps (over current draw) from my ESC and I kid you not; the double sided tape that was sticking the ESC under the battery tray became super soft and started unsticking because of the heat. That reaction in test is also do to the fact that I am running 4100 rpm in idle 2. I put it back to 8kHz and voilá, perfect equilibrium in temperature beetween my motor, battery and esc .
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- SpekBo Goblin 420, Oxy 4 360 stretch, Goblin Fireball, Oxy 3 Tareq Edition, Oxy 3 Speed, Oxy 2 190 FE, Blade 230S V2, Blade 130S, Blade McpS, Hirobo S.R.B Quark. Transmitter: DX8 Gen 2 Last edited by SpekBo; 07-03-2018 at 11:13 AM.. |
07-03-2018, 11:20 AM | #19 (permalink) |
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Location: Northern, VA
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Not arguing your results or the fact I think it should be set where the OEM says to set it.
This was not my experience at all. I had set mine wrong and ran it that way for many flights and just happen to notice it was something I must have missed when I went into ESC prgramming to check something else. I adjusted to what the Lynx page says and I couldn't tell the difference toruching the motor with my finger. This was on my second Oxy 3. The first was set where it should be and between the two I couldn't tell much difference either...same motor/ESC and roughly same HS. If it changes for the OP, awesome.
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-Ben Oxy 2/3/4/5; XL 550/700; Protos 380/700 EVO; RAW; Jeti DS12 Carbon EGODRIFT Team, Lynx/Oxy Field Rep |
07-03-2018, 12:00 PM | #20 (permalink) | |
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Join Date: Aug 2016
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Quote:
Don't mind me, I'm the funny type and the ovation at the end is purely a joke LOL ! But you are right, results vary for many different reasons; maybe even manufacturing variations from one motor to another or one esc to another as well.
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- SpekBo Goblin 420, Oxy 4 360 stretch, Goblin Fireball, Oxy 3 Tareq Edition, Oxy 3 Speed, Oxy 2 190 FE, Blade 230S V2, Blade 130S, Blade McpS, Hirobo S.R.B Quark. Transmitter: DX8 Gen 2 |
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