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Old 08-18-2018, 06:05 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I put heli in a hover then adjust head speed in the normal curve to be slightly below idle 1 governed head speed. I don’t care what the specific number is. With most radios,if you want to adjust the hover point get it in the air hovering, flip into idle 1 and listen for a small head speed increase and go back to normal then hit throttle hold. Dont move the stick. Shut off engine, go into normal curve and adjust this point, restart and repeat til your happy with the setting. If you are in between points on the curve, adjust both points before and after your hover point. The ramp up to the hover should SOUND like a linear progression, which you already known is not a linear curve in the radio. Setting the curve this way is good for initial break in, warming up the engine and the first step to confirm the gov is working.
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Old 08-18-2018, 07:02 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I don't have the governor set up yet. Was trying to get the heli straightened out before I did.
So is it correct that you do not adjust the pitch curve to make changes?
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Old 08-18-2018, 10:46 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Its not too hard

You need to be at 0 pitch mid stick, pitch curve you need not program, leave it a straight line linear in all modes.

Adjust the throttle curve to come up to the right speed that you want. Technically speaking you should be hovering around 1 tick mark above mid stick. Slightly below for higher head speed and slightly above for lower. If you go 1 step further, you should be hovering inverted at 1 tick mark below mid stick.

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Old 08-18-2018, 11:38 AM   #24 (permalink)
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It is set up at 0 at mid stick unless something has moved. If I remember correctly, last time out it was hovering at about 3/4 stick.
So I shouldn't be concerned that the throttle curve is so low?
Does it normally take the 2 to 3 minutes for the rpm to stop climbing?
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Old 08-18-2018, 09:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bclark View Post
It is set up at 0 at mid stick unless something has moved. If I remember correctly, last time out it was hovering at about 3/4 stick.
So I shouldn't be concerned that the throttle curve is so low?
Does it normally take the 2 to 3 minutes for the rpm to stop climbing?
You may have initially set up for 3/4 stick position for your hover point :

> Their is absolutely "nothing wrong with doing it either" - for it has a definite suitable purpose and goes back too Old School Learning and The Curve performance roofed by Ray Hoestetler. Essentially it is modifing the curve into the transition of the pitch or Max angle of attack of the blades. It has advantages. Got to have his book.


It is dependent on the Max Amount of Total Pitch you want - Do you want + 12 ?????? Do you Need it ??? Are you a Crack stick Flyer ??? Can you pull it ??

If you can get a Copy - Buy It ! It's Dated but very worthy with Excellent pictorials and explanation's what is going on in the graph you can see ON PAPER . Not a C.D.

Some also set H.P.P at the 50 or half way mark . " the -12 & + 12 " Stick Bangers
All sorts of fun stuff you can do ! Maybe your Max Pitch is + 8 or + 9 because thats all you want and your motor really likes it their at 70 % Butterfly opening. Bearing down - Power

DO You OWN a Pitch Gauge ?? Are you using it ?
What is the Hover Pitch ? You have NOT mentioned - Nor carburator or RPM
What is it's relation ship too the mechanical opening of the carburetor ?

A Tick Mark does Not tell you what the Hover pitch is - Its Guessing on assumption.
A Tick Mark is a " unknown " has No empirical useful measurement data that can be applied to a curve in actual degrees of pitch and how it transistions.

Hover Pitch is { Home Plate } the Bench Mark

If the Motor is at MAX Performance at 70% throttle butterfly opening >

AND - Maybe /// ????

You can reach 1750 or 1800 RPM at +6 degrees H.P.P. at ( 50% ) throttle butterfly opening. What advantage does that leave ???? it's 20 % more availabilty of power.

That is Hiden in the Curve and what you decided your MAX Pitch Is or desired.

In forward flight { LESS } pitch is needed - MOTION OF FLIGHT DYNAMICS
In Hover : H> P>P> the Angle of attack of the Blades is supporting the full weight of the ANVIL : Is the RPM adequate ?

We have the avalability : Of THREE different Idle Up's :
Each can have a sutable purpose : Think of them as 3- seperate gear boxes too select from.. V1 / V2 / V3 - Your Norm / Your Modified B / Your Modified C

Also note : You will need Negative Pitch to get down ! or you will fight landings.

A OTR truck driver spends as much time looking at his TAC RPM and selecting gears do too the road conditions as he does watching his speed limit - Staying in the power band.
He picks his Gear Boxes

Carry On ! - Confidence !

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Old 08-18-2018, 11:24 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
DO You OWN a Pitch Gauge ?? Are you using it ?
What is the Hover Pitch ? You have NOT mentioned - Nor carburator or RPM
What is it's relation ship too the mechanical opening of the carburetor ?

A Tick Mark does Not tell you what the Hover pitch is - Its Guessing on assumption.
A Tick Mark is a " unknown " has No empirical useful measurement data that can be applied to a curve in actual degrees of pitch and how it transistions.
You don't have control of hover pitch. It is what it is. I mean if you want to hover at 1700 rpms, then hover pitch is whatever hover pitch is. It doesn't matter. If you set some specific pitch, then you get up in the air with some rpms. Chances are you care more about rpm than about pitch, I mean you want to run the engine at 1700 rpms in a hover, and you take whatever pitch it gets to make that happen.

See my point? And the more you increase the rpms, the less pitch you end up running. Its simple. So why worry about pitch, just decide what rpms you want to run and pitch will fall into place where it may be.

At the end of the day, you don't even need a pitch gage. I mean its good for informational purposes, but you certainly don't need it for setup. I can setup a helicopter without one just by eyeballing the setup on the bench and then going out to fly to fine tune it. All that matter is that the top end pitch is not too much so as to not bog the engine down, and that the helicopter climbs upright and inverted at the same pace, so:

If you're climbing like its hovering (uncontested so to speak), then you add more pitch at the top.

If you're bogging at the top, then you remove some pitch.

You want it to climb at full collective without bogging but with a tiny bit of tone change, meaning you have reached the max potential of the engine power. That's it. At that point you can try to fine tune the needles to see if you can make more power by getting rid of the slight tone change and sounding like you're just hovering so to speak.

Then you repeat this test inverted full power climbout or test hover and look at the tick mark on the TX then do inverted hover and look at the tick mark, they should be symmetrical off center. If not then you just adjust both links to the blades to more negative or less negative on both to make everything symmetrical in flight. Doesn't matter what the pitch gage says, only matters what the performance says in flight.

If the setup is done like this and everything is flying perfect, LATER you can get the pitch gage and check to see what you have for reference just to know what you can pull, but you don't need it to setup the machine properly in the first place.

-=>Raja.
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Old 08-19-2018, 01:55 PM   #27 (permalink)
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You have absolute control over your Hover Pitch Point : [ It is Just ONE ] of the reasons: >

ONE of : Reasons
They put those 3 little twisty electronic potentometers knob's on the face of the Radio waiting for their Duty Assignments. For their Potential > The Great Un Known

One is normally labeled Hover Pitch // The Other is labeled Hover Throttle : THE WHY will follow >>>>>>>>>>>>> With their suitable purpose duty. So Start a Thunkin Early : Lol

Quote : >


You don't have control of hover pitch. It is what it is. I mean if you want to hover at 1700 rpms, then hover pitch is whatever hover pitch is. It doesn't matter. If you set some specific pitch, then you get up in the air with some rpms. Chances are you care more about rpm than about pitch, I mean you want to run the engine at 1700 rpms in a hover, and you take whatever pitch it gets to make that happen.

Those little Twisty Electronic Trims { When assigned } / [ Properly ] > That you can reach from the front of your TX -

Give you the ability to Fine tune or Cheat or Morph in FINE FIDELITY either the Throttle Curve Point in your H.P.P. - OR - YOUR Hover Pitch Degree Point in your H.P.P. They ALSO shake hands !

So How much ?

Each has a center point detent : You can feel it /

Throttle Curve Point : Usually around 10% / In {{{ - or + }}} either side of direction of the assigned throttle point on the curve or Carb Butter Fly Opening.

Hover Pitch Point or blade angle of attack : Usually around 2 degrees Max / In {{{- or + }}}
of the assigned pitch point on the curve or Blade Angle of Attack .

WHY ??? The Ability to Fiddle with the Marriage Curve's on the Face of the Radio ?

To adjust for Air Density / Air Temp / : Things like Altitude, or the dynamics of the Air Quality It Self

High Heat and High Humidity fly Different than Low Temperature Low Humidity or High Heat Low Humidity or Low Temperature High Humidity:

Their are special time's when under special condition's it's Just Pure SWEETNESS!!!
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Old 08-19-2018, 02:27 PM   #28 (permalink)
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At the field. After 2 tanks of hovering and adjusting, I have the mid points at 17-38-46, and have leaned the high from 1 1/4 to 1 1/8.
Staying around 1700 to 1750. Still has some head bobble though.
Strange that I had to lean it and move curve up to get the headspeed up when it was climbing too high last time out.
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:11 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Made one more 1/2 tank, upped the last number of the middle curve points to 48%. No other changes.
Headspeed around 1800. Don't know why but it really liked it. Heli was smooth, no bobble. Flew around and did some climb outside. Saw headspeed drop to 1770 one time. Will look at graphs later.
I feel like it is where it is suppose to be, only if it will stay.
Don't know why it doesn't like lower speeds
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:54 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default 1 1/8 on the high is too LOW!!

Should be at least 1 1/4 maybe even 1 3/8.

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Old 08-19-2018, 05:23 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbort View Post
Should be at least 1 1/4 maybe even 1 3/8

-=>Raja.
I thought so too. But it wouldn't run smooth at all at 1 1/4. It is finally running like I feel it should. It didn't rev when pulling out of the climb out either.
So, what should I be looking for. I really don't even k ow what fixed it today!
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Old 08-19-2018, 05:46 PM   #32 (permalink)
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This is a pic of the plug after the last flight, about 7 minutes.
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Old 08-19-2018, 08:17 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Just thought of something

I`m sure most of you are running performance air filters. Mine has a stock air filter on it. Could that possibly be why it likes to have a leaner high needle setting?
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:31 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bclark View Post
I`m sure most of you are running performance air filters. Mine has a stock air filter on it. Could that possibly be why it likes to have a leaner high needle setting?
Running the Stock Zeno Ha air filter box which has the Integral Choke Lever and Stock Foam filter element which is washable. The box is even labeled : ON /OFF /
Essentially it will become a Oil Bath Filter Element once it is coated.
With enough dirt > Restrictive limiting the Suck needed.

The HOW will follow : Begin to Ponder

They also substantially guiet the motor : Intakes make lots Noise Too !

No Ventory Stack / No Micro Screen / No Paper Element' :

With a Stock Air Box w/ choke you do not have to be creative to charge the initial cylinder.
Seen every thing from Cork's / Rubber ball's / to Wrapping a Velcro Strap or wearing out recoils trying to prime or charge the cylinder. Depends what your setting up for.
Stock Air Box has Plenty of Foam Surface Area and adequate volume.

These motors have some or a bit of blow back or known as puddling or have been known to SPIT at lower RPM. For air intake quality if your in a dirty environment a good deal.

Oil accumulated Lubricant and Dirt can load em up;
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Old 08-19-2018, 11:37 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Where is your low needle at?

Maybe you L needle is too far open and the H needle is too far closed.

Stock air filter is OK, less power but OK to use no problem.

-=>Raja.
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Old 08-20-2018, 05:05 AM   #36 (permalink)
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The Low needle is at 1 1/8. It idles good , acceleration seems ok.
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Old 08-24-2018, 11:56 AM   #37 (permalink)
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an easy way to set the low needle is to idle the engine and turn it in to get the highest idle note its position then turn it out till you get the lowest idle then split the difference and leave it there.



an easy way to tell if your fuel system is up to the task would be to fill up the tank , put everything the way you would to fly , vent , fill ect... and then remove the feed line to the carb at the carb and let the fuel gravity drain . Time it to see how long it takes to empty the tank , it must be < or = to the flight time (15min or so) If its in that range its fine. If it takes longer find the restriction .
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Old 08-24-2018, 07:43 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default More Testing

Went out this evening with the goal of seeing if I can richen the high needle.
First try was to richen the high needle to 1 1/4 from 1 1/8. It lowered the hover to around 1650 from 1800. I then set the low needle as pilotmotor suggested. It is at 1 turn.
Richened high needle a blade width and did a couple of climb outs. Engine rpm was unsteady. I richened another blade width and tried again. Engine ran worse on climb out and power was down. Moved back to just under 1 1/4 and engine is smooth and rpm`s stable and power is back. Headspeed is around 1770. That is where I finished for the day. Curve is at 17,30,44,100.
Any thoughts? Thanks, Bill.
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Old 08-24-2018, 07:50 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Try

The L at 1 1/8, the H at 1 1/4 for starters. How does it behave like this?

How does it sound in a hover, is it smooth or burning alot or a little?

How does it climb out? BY the way, to do a climbout you must advance the stick slowly from hover to full collective (take about 3 seconds to get there) in other words don't slam it to the top.

Then wait as long as you can to hear how the engine reacts without any cyclic inputs.

-=>Raja.
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Old 08-24-2018, 08:31 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbort View Post
The L at 1 1/8, the H at 1 1/4 for starters. How does it behave like this?

How does it sound in a hover, is it smooth or burning alot or a little?

How does it climb out? BY the way, to do a climbout you must advance the stick slowly from hover to full collective (take about 3 seconds to get there) in other words don't slam it to the top.

Then wait as long as you can to hear how the engine reacts without any cyclic inputs.

-=>Raja.
Hopefully I can work with it more on Sunday. I will move the low out to 1 1/8 and try.
It is pretty smooth in hover, but not as smooth as it was at 1 1/8 H.
I went from rich to lean on climbouts to try to find the right tune. The last climbout was good, little rpm change at all. I probably didn`t take 3 sec, but was probably 2. I don`t slam the sticks anyway, I`m just a sport pilot.

What am I looking for in richening the low needle?
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