Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Mikado Logo Helicopters


Mikado Logo Helicopters Mikado Logo Helicopters Discussion


Like Tree2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-13-2018, 09:30 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 9,091
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Default Logo 600SE V1

So, my next project is now set. I will be building a new in box 600SE kit v1 edition. Love the classic red canopy!

My initial setup plan is:

Target rotor speed: 1800 rpm max
Jive 120HV
Hacker A50-14L 400kV
12t pinion
Vbar Silverline (full size)
12S3300, 12S4000, 12S4400, ??
(3) Futaba BLS253
Futaba BLS251
Edge SE693
Tail blades??

I have some questions:
1. Add the counter bearing? May not be critical, but seems would prolong motor bearings life in additional to preventing possible gear stripping. No real downside.
2. If adding the counter bearing, is there anything else needed besides the longer main shaft upgrade?
3. I have Edge SE 115 tail blades are they too much for the tail of this model? I've been unable to find a set of new Edge SE105's around as of yet. I have found Rail 106's to be excellent.
4. I already have 12S packs. Not sure what will be ideal if I acquire new ones. My understanding has been that the 12S3300 size is too light for balance unless tail weight is added. Maybe 12S4400 is too heavy for ideal? Unsure. Appreciate advice on this.

Thanks!!
__________________
= Rb43 =
Rob43 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-13-2018, 09:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 6,778
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Default

1. Add the counter bearing? May not be critical, but seems would prolong motor bearings life in additional to preventing possible gear stripping. No real downside. It is supposed to prolong motor bearing life. Downside is with a V1 frame you can only fit certain packs. I used to use Revolectrix 4400 60C 12 S packs. The Gens Ace 5000 45C fit as well. I think they have to be 45 x 46 mm. I used the Gens Ace 3300 60C 6S packs as well.

2. If adding the counter bearing, is there anything else needed besides the longer main shaft upgrade? You need to check the motor mount hole distance fits your motor. I can’t remember if it was 25mm or 30 mm.

3. I have Edge SE 115 tail blades are they too much for the tail of this model? I've been unable to find a set of new Edge SE105's around as of yet. I have found Rail 106's to be excellent. With that tail 95mm was recommended. You will need to upgrade the tail blade grips to the newer style if you want to go bigger. Get the aluminum upgraded boom clamp.

4. I already have 12S packs. Not sure what will be ideal if I acquire new ones. My understanding has been that the 12S3300 size is too light for balance unless tail weight is added. Maybe 12S4400 is too heavy for ideal? Unsure. Appreciate advice on this. Only certain packs would fit under the counter bearing. That’s why I started buying the Gens Ace 5000 45C packers. I had a carbon plate from custom heli parts as a battery tray on the bottom.
__________________
Synergy 766, E5SS, E5S, 516S, Soxos 600, Strike 7, VControl T, Neo, Tribunus
Freeskiken is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-13-2018, 09:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 6,778
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Default

The models so light you donít need a lot of head speed. Flies great at 1600 to 1850.
__________________
Synergy 766, E5SS, E5S, 516S, Soxos 600, Strike 7, VControl T, Neo, Tribunus
Freeskiken is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-14-2018, 05:52 AM   #4 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 9,091
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Default

Thank you for all of your tips, Freeskiken.

The Hacker has 25mm and 30mm hole spacing, so I knew it would fit the motor mount plate.

I have the Spedix battery tray (and Spedix tail) in my SX. WIth some non-slip tool drawer liner applied, only needs a couple of battery straps to fully secure the packs. All of my 12S packs are assembled as sticks with shrink sleeve, so they are easy to use with the tray and a couple of straps. I'll probaby end up using one in the SE as well.

I was surprised you said 95's were used on the SE tail. Seems most use 105's on their SE. Is the V1 tail ratio faster?
__________________
= Rb43 =
Rob43 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-14-2018, 07:46 AM   #5 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 6,778
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Default

The V1 Logo 600 I was told the recommendation for the original blade grips was 95mm. I would put the newer style blade grips on it. They are more robust. Then you can use 105mm safely.
__________________
Synergy 766, E5SS, E5S, 516S, Soxos 600, Strike 7, VControl T, Neo, Tribunus
Freeskiken is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-14-2018, 02:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,915
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chrisitansburg VA USA
Default

I still have one of those old red 600se canopies NIP.

It wasn't the grips that failed, it was the hub that goes on the tail shaft. I think the newer ones are made from a different steel and they changed something else as well back there.

The best setup I ever flew on a 600se was 10s4500 Hyperion stick packs and a Pyro700-52. I have plans to make a 10s 600se and the only thing I'm missing are the packs. I was planning to get the GensAce 5s5500 45C packs (they fit with the newer tray frames) but I'd really rather run Dinogy Graphene 2 cells.
maarset likes this.
__________________
Jeti DS14us -- TT e700 -- 6s Logo600se UL -- Logo600-3d -- Logo500 UL -- Charge Case
prototype3a is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-14-2018, 04:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 9,091
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Default

I spoke with Ron at Mikado USA today briefly. He confirmed Freeskiken's assertion regarding the tail grips. I'll probably just buy the new tail rotor assembly so I can run 105's. He also mentioned to keep the main rotor pitch below 11.5 in addition to the 1800 rpm limit. I don't see that as a problem. I can live with that.

A little confused on the main shaft needed for using the counterbearing though, and I didn't know enought ask Ron about that one. I see the shaft listed for the current 600SE is stated as 211mm long. The current 600SX shaft is stated to be 199mm. Not sure why the difference...?
__________________
= Rb43 =
Rob43 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-14-2018, 05:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,501
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
I spoke with Ron at Mikado USA today briefly. He confirmed Freeskiken's assertion regarding the tail grips. I'll probably just buy the new tail rotor assembly so I can run 105's. He also mentioned to keep the main rotor pitch below 11.5 in addition to the 1800 rpm limit. I don't see that as a problem. I can live with that.

A little confused on the main shaft needed for using the counterbearing though, and I didn't know enought ask Ron about that one. I see the shaft listed for the current 600SE is stated as 211mm long. The current 600SX shaft is stated to be 199mm. Not sure why the difference...?
I think the shaft was shortened in SX versions because the swash drivers became integrated with the main head block. I'm building one now (600se) and not using the pinion support. I did buy the thicker main gear (13mm), and a 12t pinion for a bit more contact (400kv motor).

211 is the correct length for 600se with old head (separate swash driver) and the lower counterbearing.

There is a kit that has the counterbearing set + the main shaft, I think it's 04837. Might want to confirm it has the long main shaft if that's what you need.
__________________
Protos Max Leggero 700, Logo 600SE, Trex 250, Blade 230s
DX9
flint723 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-14-2018, 06:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 9,091
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Default

OK. Thanks, flint723. I see the 4837. I measured my V1 main shaft, and indeed its about 205mm. So, it makes sense that it's been extended just for the counterbearing assembly.

I am confused about the main rotor blade grips. They seem to have remained 4mm bore for the blade bolts. I've not removed my Edge 693's from the other heli, but I am sure they are 5mm. Some blades used to come with additional bushings, but I don't think I have any. I've not found any bushings to purchase. It makes me think I have it wrong...??
__________________
= Rb43 =
Rob43 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-14-2018, 06:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,501
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
OK. Thanks, flint723. I see the 4837. I measured my V1 main shaft, and indeed its about 205mm. So, it makes sense that it's been extended just for the counterbearing assembly.

I am confused about the main rotor blade grips. They seem to have remained 4mm bore for the blade bolts. I've not removed my Edge 693's from the other heli, but I am sure they are 5mm. Some blades used to come with additional bushings, but I don't think I have any. I've not found any bushings to purchase. It makes me think I have it wrong...??
Best option is to buy 690sx grips and blade bolts, they are the same but with 5mm bolt.

Otherwise you can try to put a want ad out for these 4-5mm spacers, I'm sure tons of people have them lying around. I found just one set in my spares, I'm going to use them a while first and see if I bend the 4mm bolts or not. I think not at 1750-1800rpm.
__________________
Protos Max Leggero 700, Logo 600SE, Trex 250, Blade 230s
DX9
flint723 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-14-2018, 07:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 6,778
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Default

I used a set of blades for a long time by mistake with 5mm holes and the 4mm bolts. lol. Didnít hurt anything.

If you want to use 5mm bolts you have to put the 690 blade grips on it. But you can just put bushings in the blades and run the 4mm bolts.
__________________
Synergy 766, E5SS, E5S, 516S, Soxos 600, Strike 7, VControl T, Neo, Tribunus
Freeskiken is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-14-2018, 07:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 6,778
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Default

I think the old 199 mm main shaft is not available any more. I had a couple but I just sold the Heli this summer.
__________________
Synergy 766, E5SS, E5S, 516S, Soxos 600, Strike 7, VControl T, Neo, Tribunus
Freeskiken is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-14-2018, 07:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 9,091
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Default

Agreed. Thanks.

So, I will need to get the grips, bolts, tail rotor, couterbearing kit, 12t pinion, and some tail blades. Undecided on them. I will see if I can find some new Edge SE105's.

So, then, I will have to learn if the OWB can hold up. The Hacker A50-14L isn't a super power house, so I am hoping that with the Jive mode 4 and limiting the collective that it will work out.
__________________
= Rb43 =
Rob43 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-15-2018, 12:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 6,778
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Default

The OWB should be fine. I ran the 11 tooth pinion to keep my head speed low. I ran 13 degrees of pitch.

Maybe....I not sure but can you cut or just use the 205.mm main shaft ? On one of my logos I had just used a extra collar that you use on the top of the frame / main shaft at the bottom of the shaft because it stuck out from the main gear. I put a shim and a snap ring on as well.
__________________
Synergy 766, E5SS, E5S, 516S, Soxos 600, Strike 7, VControl T, Neo, Tribunus
Freeskiken is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-16-2018, 10:12 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 9,091
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Default

I ordered the counter bearing kit, 690 grips, and current 600/690 tail rotor assembly. Also ordered a set of 690 dampers (Ron's advice) from A-Main since Mikado is back ordered on the hard durometer ones.

Was away for the weekend, while my Hacker A50-14L arrived at the local post office....postage due. LOL. No idea how that happened. I paid thru ebay and paypal what they added for shipping, but I guess they underestimated. No biggie.

My next challenge in this project will be recovery on the Vbar Silver and reflashing the 5.3 firmware. I hope it works. I didn't expect to need as many extra items for the heli. I thought I'd be using my Pyro 700-45L from my SX, but opted for the Hacker 400kV instead. Then, this order for different grips, tail rotor assembly, and the counter bearing kit. I had intended to attempt to go pretty stock with the SE. But, I know these tweaks will give a better result, as well as more durable as well.
__________________
= Rb43 =
Rob43 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-17-2018, 07:34 AM   #16 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 6,778
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Default

That’s kind of a problem with the old kits. Seems some of the parts are not available anymore. And there have been quite a few changes...so the new kits are better....parts are available.
__________________
Synergy 766, E5SS, E5S, 516S, Soxos 600, Strike 7, VControl T, Neo, Tribunus
Freeskiken is online now        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-17-2018, 05:03 PM   #17 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 9,091
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Default

At least Mikado has integrated their product lines backwards very well. Makes for the options as they develop improvements.

I've read of several who swore by their 10S config for the 600SE. If/when my 12S packs begin to die off, it might be a high time to give that a try.
Freeskiken likes this.
__________________
= Rb43 =

Last edited by Rob43; 09-17-2018 at 05:17 PM..
Rob43 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-20-2018, 07:44 AM   #18 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 9,091
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Default Tail blades

So, I have a perfect set of Edge SE693's balanced perfectly which I had flown on my Compass Chronos. So, they are donated to the 600SE project. However, the Chronos tail blades are Edge SE115's. It actually seems reasonable to me, as the reason I went with them on the Chronos was to gain the authority for my relatively low preferred head speed on that bird of 1850.

Given that I will be installing the 690SX tail rotor assembly, has anyone run 115 tail blades on their SE?
__________________
= Rb43 =
Rob43 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-20-2018, 10:13 AM   #19 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,501
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
So, I have a perfect set of Edge SE693's balanced perfectly which I had flown on my Compass Chronos. So, they are donated to the 600SE project. However, the Chronos tail blades are Edge SE115's. It actually seems reasonable to me, as the reason I went with them on the Chronos was to gain the authority for my relatively low preferred head speed on that bird of 1850.

Given that I will be installing the 690SX tail rotor assembly, has anyone run 115 tail blades on their SE?
I read an old thread yesterday that a guy was running 115 on 600se but only up to 1600 rpm.

I don't have my 12s 4000 packs yet but I flew my 600se yesterday with 8s 5500 (1170g of battery) and the tail was solid in tic tocs and backwards flight with the Rotortech 106. At 1200rpm governed and also at 1300-1400 100% flat with the VTX 697.

So maybe the 115s are overkill? Another concern is ground clearance with the stock tail fin, it already seems pretty close with the 106.
__________________
Protos Max Leggero 700, Logo 600SE, Trex 250, Blade 230s
DX9
flint723 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-20-2018, 01:28 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 9,091
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Default

They may indeed be overkill. I don't have any Edge SE105's to match with my Edge SE693's. . I have Align 105's, Cyclone 105's, and Rail 106's, KBDD 104's, and KBDD 112's. My only Edge tails are SE115. I recalled thinking the Cyclones really lacked performance compared to the Rails when I flew them on my T700N with main rotor at 2100.

My 600SX is awaiting my attention to replace the main shaft and autohub, as the existing one keeps locking in the engaged condition. Flies fine, but no auto-rotation capability.
__________________
= Rb43 =
Rob43 is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1