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Electric Motors Winding and Repair Electric Motors Winding and Repair Discussion


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Old 01-25-2020, 01:03 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Any heli or F3S pilot here or there can send me a motor and I guarantee you will FEEL THE DIFFERENCE when Clugh does the work . But first let me ask your bright selves this...Do you pilots have the cash for magnet segmentation or uniquely shaped pole pieces? If you do why cant you purchase the $1200.00 PRO HV APD and take care of all this with active filtering? There are other ways if you think just changing the wind for the same effect has no value. There are other option$. I already have these things too but you dont so I'm surely helping you with old ideas into the current ones. Be sure if you don't wise up the antiquated motors are out. Kontronics, Xnova, Neu, Lehner.... have all progressed in some aspect of motor design and I can assure you when the 40mm series Lehner hits it will be more trouble for your group. They spent the capital on these special things you cannot know for these same effects Can you pay for it? or compete with it? The pyro 1000 seems dominant where you are.



L TYPE LAMINATED MAGNETS
Reduce Eddy Current Loss in High-Efficiency Motors.
High efficiency demands the best materials, and the Arnold L Type laminated rare earth magnets are proven to reduce eddy current losses in high-efficiency motors. Less eddy current loss means less heat and less waste. Designers in the aerospace, automotive, motorsport, and industrial markets are turning to laminated rare earth magnets, and are working to balance the tradeoff between power and heat.

Action speaks louder than words.

U like to compare so compare what you have to this "unfinished project."
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Old 01-25-2020, 01:40 PM   #42 (permalink)
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The new winds bring this to the pm losses versu$ buying $pecial magnet$ and drive$. Are you absolutely sure u know what you are talking about over there in Germany Stefan? Are you helping hobbyist? U sure?


Maybe Bridgette can help you in her explanation of why this matters.
https://www.comsol.com/blogs/capturi...-motor-design/

Click on her animation.


Im off to winding. Project time is constantly wasted fooling with you all.
You have a wonderful evening.
Hubert
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Old 01-25-2020, 06:19 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Still shot showing eddy currents in the PM machine. The full animation is in the links. The purpose of the wind is mainly to reduce the eddy currents in the rotor and rare earth u see here. What's the issue ?

The response from bruh on RCN.

"Hi Stefan,

just do the math, it's not as easy as Holle wrote it. Efficiency is the factor for higher throughput.
An example
Assume that the motor has an efficiency η = 0.900 and can process an input power of 5.0 kW. This means that (1 - 0.9) × 5 kW = 500 watts of excess heat can be dissipated. Pressing in thicker wire (and / or using better segmented stator-iron magnets) increases the efficiency to 0.933. The engine's ability to lose this 500 watts has not changed (through radiation, convection, and conduction). This means that the motor can now process 7.5 kW before it reaches the loss limit of 500 watts (0.066 × 7.5 kW).
An efficiency of 90 to 93.3% means a performance increase of 50%, factor 1.5. That is why the efficiency plays such an important role in every engine concept: The efficiency determines the maximum output. All this under the assumption that the iron is not saturated.
Quite an extreme example, just for the sake of calculation / fun: an increase in efficiency from 80% to 90% would increase the input power that the motor can handle by a factor of 2. However, if the efficiency can be increased from 90% to 95%, the input power also increases by a factor of 2.


General case
A change from efficiency ηold to efficiency ηnew would increase the maximum engine power by a factor of
N = (1 - eta old) / (1 - eta new)

Copper as thick as possible for ...
higher efficiency
more power
lower speed drop under load
lower losses
lower temperature requires less cooling

For testing the same motor sizes eg. Set a power Example 35 volts and 100 amperes and mask all cooling options (attach tape to the fan openings and the motor on a plywood board, to prevent heat dissipation, e.g. with aluminum) Measure positions. Therefore set the cooling to zero if possible, otherwise a better cooling air fan design keeps the engine cool but the power loss can still be quite high. Otherwise you would not recognize that.

Happy Amps Christian"

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Old 01-25-2020, 07:52 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Lets look at the degradation of the magnetic field as a function of temperature.

But first consider the geometry used in these test results

Grade 45M Cylindrical Neo magnet
0.500″ OD x 0.500″ thick (M)
Work-piece 3/8″ thick 1018 mild steel
0.005″ gap between the magnet and work-piece


~ chart courtesy of Dura Magnetics~

So Stefan we see here the attractive force of the magnet, is proportional to 2 times the degradation of the Residual Induction (Br). This is a good first order estimate and it can be used, but should be validated empirically.
  • Even though a selected grade of magnet does not experience an irreversible loss (i.e. permanent demagnetization) when heated up, it will still lose net magnetic field.
  • For recoverable losses due to heating, a magnet will recover when cooled back down.
  • Even though a magnet did not experience an irrecoverable loss, the recoverable loss may be such that the magnet fails to deliver adequate field at an elevated operating temperature.
  • The Residual Induction Temperature Coefficient α (Br) can be used to estimate the degradation of the Br for a specified temperature range.
  • The resulting percent decrease in attractive force or net field is proportional to 2 times the percent degradation of the Residual Induction (Br).
  • Selecting a higher heat tolerance grade may not solve the problem of reversible field losses due to heat. A higher heat tolerance will mean that the magnet will not experience an irreversible loss at higher temperatures. This does not mean the percent loss of Br per degree C will be improved to the point the magnet will be successful in the application. The solution may be in the magnetic geometry design or changing alloys.

You see the magnetic field is a descending line as a function of the magnets temperature to demag. Are you sure this wind that drastically reduces this heat in the magnets does nothing you could feel. From here it should be apparent that the Energy Density (Grade) drops considerably as the magnet is heated up. The grade 45 essentially becomes a grade 38.7. This loss is reversible and the magnet will recover, but the application may be in jeopardy as the net field of the magnet degrades. What else is apparent is the magnet loses a full two pounds of attracting force when going from 20°C to 100°C.

So are you positively sure this wind that reduces the magnets temperature dramatically isn't something you could feel ? And how do you know what the next pilot would feel anyway since we are all unique in our sensory perception etc. Id think such a drastic reduction in magnetic pull definitely feel-able with good hands what do you think ?


The sun sets in the west and I'm done here for the evening.
Goodnight
Hubert
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Old 01-26-2020, 09:54 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Hi Stefan,
You seem very frustrated at the right answers about motors, but when it comes to expertise into things like that you're obviously the authority with a first person view, because I haven't a clue what its like inside there.

Cheer up soon.
Hubert,
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Old 01-26-2020, 10:29 PM   #46 (permalink)
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There is another turns ratio that's beautiful with the right wind I have not posted but I will hold it for later. Understand son, u've tried several times to do just that,talk to me in my thread. You're the first one that shows up. Honestly I don't really want to talk to any of u in a 2 way dialog coz u don't know how to or know much. Plus U lock me out for much less. U totally burden my brain because on top of your incorrect assumptions and endless conjecture ironically after all the "KNOWING" you ask ALOT of questions. Since you here with no understanding, or a motor of your own to reference to not copperdoc or holle's, learning from me u should do that and just simply not talk so much. It's clear to me you don't know anything here by the sheer volume of questions you have.

With you there's always some malfunction so don't be mad at me, because you ask too many question, and do not do the math to answer your own question after the formulas been provided

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Old 01-27-2020, 04:52 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Old 01-27-2020, 06:16 AM   #48 (permalink)
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The Legend of Kobe Bryant (Tribute) - 20 Minutes of Kobe's TOP 50 NBA Highlights 🐐 (20 min 25 sec)
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Old 01-27-2020, 05:12 PM   #49 (permalink)
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"Hello

everyone I always try to imagine what can be made more harmonious.
Pure star connection leads the current through two phases in series.
However, the D winding has all 3 phase coils in operation, one directly and the other in parallel but only in series.
How are the electromagnetic fields distributed in the motor?
If I now go to the delta connection via the so-called star coils, the current can adapt to the EMF of each phase.
The fact that the star coils are wound on other webs is probably also helpful.
Therefore always brooding brooding.

Greetings Aloys."

Immer nachdenken. Ja, das stimmt, Herr Z. Das Problem für ihn ist, dass es nicht auftritt. Er ist zu beschäftigt, um an den wirklichen Senioren zu zweifeln, weil er dumm von dem Krokodil fasziniert ist. Wenn er nicht so akademisch faul wäre, könnte er anfangen, nachdenkliche Gewohnheiten zu entwickeln. Er bemüht sich auch weiterhin, seine Vergleichsfragen zu verstehen, mit denen sich keine Zahl zufrieden geben kann, die einfach nicht vorherrscht. An dieser Stelle muss ich davon ausgehen, dass es sich bei seiner Rolle nur um bewusste Ignoranz handelt. Ich würde mich nicht zu sehr darum kümmern. Für die Leute, die dort denken können, muss die Verteilung mindestens eine mechanische Verschiebung von mindestens 30 Grad sein, und was dies in elektronischen Graden entspricht, denke ich. Jemandem, der nachdenklich ist, sollte klar sein, dass man nur in 30-Grad-Intervallen mechanische Bewegungen ausführen kann, wenn nur 12 Bahnen in 360-Grad-Schritten zur Verfügung stehen. Dann überlege dir doch mal das Modalvektoren und deren Größe werden an den richtigen Stellen auf dem Stator platziert.Da bist du begrenzt durch die Intervalle von 30 Grad und der Sweet Spot ist nicht genau das, was Sie die Vektoren Größen durch das Windungsverhältnis manipulieren können.

Additional layers allow the vectors to have more possible points of modal manipulation as if it had more webs per revolution.


Brooding always Brooding.


Vielen Dank,
Hubert
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Old 01-27-2020, 06:34 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Flux barriers in tooth region fo SL 12N14P

Aber selbst Christian weiß, dass es nicht das erste Mal ist, dass sie sich bemühen, alles zu ruinieren. Erinnern Sie sich daran und holle sagt, dass sie keine Flussbarrieren sind und die sind. Denken Sie an die Drehmomentbedenken und empfehlen Sie zusätzliche Stapel, die hier abgelehnt werden, aber im Jahr 2020 geben wir den antiquierten Dzhamal-Stapel bei 5050 an. +10. Ich hoffe, jemand Pyro mit 14 Polen macht das, was er in einer LRK DD abgelehnt hat. Außerdem wäre es besser, den endgültigen Schnitt nachträglich fertigzustellen, um die Herstellungskosten zu senken, da weniger Teile lasergeschnitten würden.

And so Holle and Stefan who says he does not like talking to me but still inquired about another of my classics this Gerling inspired 4035 sl machine can see Christian flux barrier sheet from 28 years ago complete in one piece.


We think from the Drs. results this split teeth arangement boost incredibly the working harmonic so you could use it with y-d variant and eliminate the fundamental to go with the high working harmonic boost it has. This should make good torque either way. If the iron wasn't replaced by changing the aspect ratio of the stack then it is a machine that's more torque dense than a "whole" stator with full teeth judged at its amended weight reduction.


Brooding always Brooding....
Hubert
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Old 01-28-2020, 07:49 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Prototyp 12n14p YD
Brooding always brooding.

At some point you'll actually have to get off the keyboards and wrap something. You could use the same amount of turns if you do a lrk YY-D. That should put you in the same park as w2=2W Ever though about that? Pay close attention to the diagram and understand there are only 6 coils present in it. It is a general diagram but for half the stator it works. I would show you but I don't want to ruin Stefans learning about it from you.



See how useful the 3rd person accounts are there......in the chain xyz is the same as abc. Sebastian isn't supposed to be wrapping the small machine He told me he had a 24 slot 28 pole axi so he was to pursue this 24 slot scheme after transforming the bell to 14 poles. He speaks about that magnet coverage but turns and hobbles together this small thing.

Why he pulls up this 12n14p port he has no direction from anyone makes really no sense after polling my email so many times. He hurriedly rushes of and does things like this so Ill always question his results. Too worried about satisfying the trolls time lines.A waste of research when he could have spanned the testing across a different topology with a different turns ratio. To accommodate the shift he tries to advise the curious one about really needed to double the slots to 24. He's been told already and does totally something else. The shift is seven slots. If Gerd didn't erase the charts in the replies then you'd know for sure what the polarity should be.

Review the figures in the papers I sent you personally then and do not share it there as it was erased. Let the didactics flounder.



Das sollte er tun. Aus diesem Grund nerven Sie alle, wenn Sie glauben, etwas zu wissen, aber nicht einmal wissen, wie Sie dieses Spulendiagramm einfach in den Wicklungsrechner übersetzen können, um das richtige Spulenschema zu erhalten. Sie reden alle zu viel und lernen zu wenig. Die Spulen und Polaritäten sind übersichtlich angeordnet und trotzdem redest du redest redest. Jedes Mal, wenn Sie an alles denken, ist es einschüchternd, dann fangen Sie wieder an, mit dem Mund zu laufen, so wird es erledigt. Wochen reden, aber noch keinen Zahn eingewickelt. Komm schon. Schreiben Sie das Schema für jeden SL-Motor auf und ziehen Sie dann die YY- oder DD-Variante in Betracht, da die halben Parallelen es sauber machen, wenn Sie unter der Haube bleiben möchten, wird die serielle Verbindung hergestellt. Ich glaube, Sie haben ein 180-Grad-Geheimnis verpasst. Das konnte ich dort nie hinzufügen. Ich erkannte es aus dem gelöschten Diagramm und einem anderen Artikel über mehrschichtige Axialmaschinen.
Ich werde es nicht erneut posten. Wenn Sie 12 Slots spielen wollen, warum sollten Sie versuchen, genau das zu tun, was ich mache, anstatt eine der Maschinen mit mehreren Ebenen. Sie sind die harmonisch reinsten.



Dafür muss ein Senior an Bord sein. Die Säuglinge machen das nicht.
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Old 01-28-2020, 12:40 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Its the main sl motor then one periphery machine advances 30 degrees mechanical and the another retards 30 degrees mechanical. Then they are all serially tied. From there you tune from the turns ratio. You have a chart there if you didn't erase it. Sebastian can take 12 to 24 slots and wind a 4 layer machine. Say every tooth carries 4 turns. Then 2 turn is the main sl machine the periphery sl machines are 1 turn. The interspersed machines share teeth. To me once you lace it together It is an integral slot wind.


Dank Enthusiasten wie Zwieblum und Stefan scheint das Genie dort wirklich durch. Du musst Stefan nicht aufhalten. Bitte stelle weiter doofe Fragen, um nichts zu wollen. Der Mangel an Verständnis, den es zu Ihrem Forum zeigt, ist kollosal. Wir verstehen hier, also ist es kein Problem. Wir hoffen, niemand ist wirklich so dicht, wo Sie sind und es ist bedauerlich, dass Sie Ihre eigenen Taschenrechnerfragen mit einem riesigen Taschenrechner an Ihrer Seite, dem PC, nicht beantworten können. Wenn Sie mit diesem Ding die Antworten nicht finden können, gibt es sowieso keine Hoffnung für Sie.
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Old 01-29-2020, 09:11 AM   #53 (permalink)
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http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...-RotoMax-150cc

Forget those silly little speed planes I'd truly rather wind what goes in something like this. A 150CC Rotomax. Its a 24N20 pole. If it were me id convert it to 10 segmented pole and wind it this way.





ABB US corporate research center AKA NC state D.E.E.C.S.Tested this and in their test this was their conclusion.

The designed machine with this winding shows 1.25% increment in average torque, with 1.6% torque ripple, and 1.1% THD compared to conventional FSCW (torque ripple 5.3% and THD of 4.6%). The simultaneous cancellation of sub and super harmonics increases the power factor of the machine by 7% and improves the core loss performance by 15% compared to the DL FSCW. Most of the reported works on harmonic reduction can only reduce one particular harmonics with a sacrifice or no improvement in the average torque. However, the proposed concept has the advantage of cancelling most of the unwanted harmonics without sacrificing torque density of the machine. Torque ripple and THD reduction without pole shaping or skewing further reduces the manufacturing complexity. The proposed concept is equally applicable to reluctance machines and induction machines with either concentrated or distributed wound stator. Future work from this research will include experimental results.

That last section in red is for Mr Lang on the line Chris. It's true that we have nothing in common. I never forget

Von den Zweiflern, die noch nicht einmal eine respektable konventionelle Zweischichtmaschine gewickelt haben, sollten Sie kein Verständnis für dieses tiefgreifende Konzept erwarten.

@Steve
Wenn Sie die Nachricht erhalten und interessiert sind, senden Sie mir den Motor. Wenn ich es besser mache, wenn sie sprechen, siehst du die Abhängigkeit von Taschenrechnern? Ich habe dir gezeigt, dass du die Harmonischen direkt untersuchen kannst, um zu sehen, ob sie verschwinden. ABB meldete eine Verbesserung des Leistungsfaktors um 7% und des Drehmoments um fast 2%. Wir haben auch gezeigt, dass wir die Ausrichtung des Stroms und der Spannung, die die Maschine erzeugt, beobachten und den Leistungsfaktor bestimmen können. Sie können an diesen Dingen deutlich erkennen, dass das meiste, was Sie dort lesen, meistens unprofessionelle Hobbyisten sind! Die Foren sind voll von Experten, die nicht einmal eine respektable antiquierte Maschine verwundet haben. Anhand der angegebenen Netzspannungsprofile können Sie erkennen, dass kein Taschenrechner oder Raketenwissen erforderlich ist, um ein gleichmäßigeres Signal zu erhalten. Nur ein anspruchsvoller Augapfel und ein Zielfernrohr.

Ist es nicht neugierig, was Bastler wie Zwieblum und Stefan sagen, wenn man sich die Magnetdaten ansieht und auch rechnerisch erkennt, dass für eine Leistungssteigerung um den Faktor 1,6 nur eine 2% ige Effizienzsteigerung erforderlich ist.

Their pilot hands are obviously numb.
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Old 01-30-2020, 09:46 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Ich bezweifle, dass er das sehen wird, aber wenn die maximale Leistung 180 Ampere beträgt, beziehe ich mich auf die Effektivleistung bei 127 Ampere, sodass die 21 x 21 Ihre einzige verfügbare Option zu sein scheint. Ich weiß nicht, warum eine Tribüne das Schalten von 20 Polen bei einer so geringen Geschwindigkeit nicht bewältigen kann. Wenn es nicht funktioniert, ist es eine marginale Leistung. Kaufen Sie Jeti Spin.
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:43 AM   #55 (permalink)
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So we see here two partial motors on the stator half. The delta leads are under the grey caps. The wye starts are the open leads and the ends are bundled under the orange cap. The final connection is the each end under the orange cap connects to each delta lead under the grey caps. Ill show the delta generated line voltage and current at no load.

Überprüfen Sie die Polarität in den von Ihnen gelöschten Diagrammen
Um es unter die Haube zu stecken ist wirklich nichts. Wen interessiert es, wer Spaghetti nicht mag? Sie haben sich nicht gewunden, so dass sie sowieso nicht essen können. Alles, was Sie tun müssen, ist das Bündeln der Sternenden mit den Delta-Motorklemmen, wenn Sie möchten.
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Old 02-01-2020, 12:03 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Sk's 14 pole he will try the wind on.
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Old 02-04-2020, 06:14 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Without a scope I wonder how you will determine or show improvement? The wires been stripped without a scope shot of the native winds generated harmonic. What will you compare the new wind's to? Not one of them there on RCN is going to put up an OEM comparison motor or take any part in your confirming experiments based on any information you got from me. Consider a new dream. As I have told you all before you will need more than a propeller efficiency calculator to determine definitive improvement in power factor, a reduction in total harmonic distortion, and a reduction in core and rotor losses. If they cannot understand that the most basic pieces of electronic diagnostic equipment are needed to diagnose electronics there's not alot left to say about this lack of understanding.You cant drive the stake any deeper in these arithmetic monsters they are obviously afraid of.It should be rather obvious as we don't see academia use prop calculators to confirm a better motor. Funny how hobbyist swear by them but then question the PhD's much more discrete answers. Its baffling to me how any group of pilots could think any calculator they use to determine a target propeller is more elaborate than finite elemental modelers and true dyne meters in peer reviewed Hubertus level testing environments when it comes to grading the performance of an electric motor

Du siehst niemanden, aber Aloys freundet dich an. Was ist der Sinn? Ist es nur für die Show? Dies ist derselbe private E-Mail-Schaltkreis, den Sie bereits haben. Sie werden dich niemals inspirieren. Es kommt von mir. Vergiss es. Für manche Menschen ist es sehr wichtig, welche Hautfarbe sie umgibt.


Good luck with the "group" pilots

Hubert
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:24 PM   #58 (permalink)
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4 Deltas in my new motor YYYY-DDDD motor.
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Old 02-05-2020, 05:46 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Default 3 Schichten Huhn kommen zuerst


Ich denke, ich kann 4 Varianten als Projekte verpacken, bevor die Redakteure, die dort sprechen, mit 1 beginnen. Als nächstes kommt die 3-lagige 4035 HKIII. Kann Stefan ohne Mathematik die Linie und damit den Strombeiwert als Funktion des Haltemoments im Propellerrechner ermitteln? Wird ein Bastler mit lautem Mund dies für eine Nachschlagetabelle ohne die Zelle Mathe Mathe tun müssen? Kann Powercrocos ab '03 diese Probleme lösen oder haben Sie sich auf Leistungsrechner für Propeller verlassen?



..................................................Keine Ausreden, warum Sie nicht alle einem einfachen Diagramm folgen können.
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Old 02-05-2020, 06:35 PM   #60 (permalink)
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@ Sebastian
Wickeln Sie nicht zwei separate Schichten mit der 7-fach-Verschiebung ein. Wickeln Sie die 3- oder 4-Lagen-Maschine, die die peripheren Spulen um 30 Grad vor- und zurückbewegt. Passen Sie die Kv des Testmotors so genau wie möglich an die DL-Steuerung an. Verbinden Sie die 3 Schichten in Reihe, so dass die endgültige primäre Maschine das Delta ist. Passen Sie die harmonischen Schnitte an und verstärken Sie sie mit dem entsprechenden Übersetzungsverhältnis. Hier ist ein Diagramm. Sie sehen, Powercroco hat seinen wütenden Speedpiloten wie Stefan dies nicht beigebracht. Gleiches gilt für Yuri mit den hier eingesetzten US-Hochleistungspiloten. Sie sind faul und werden nicht rechnen und hängen von Taschenrechner-Aplets ab, also ist ad hominem der Rückgriff. Sie sehen, nachdem die Raytheon-Ablehnungen und CD-Romulans alle hier nach den Mars-Handbüchern suchen, nach all ihren exklusiven Threads, die ich nicht sein konnte im. Es ist kein Zweifel, dass ChX die Autorität dort ist.


Auf jeden Fall sind das immer noch nur alte Fotos. Wann hast du vor, etwas zusammenzurollen??

Thanks
Hubert
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