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Old 06-17-2019, 12:18 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Tail issue

I'm new to torque tubes so I was wondering what this issue seem like to you guys. The heli tail seem to be loosing power every time I apply hard left or right rudder. You can see what I mean in the video. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. I feel like I'm missing something in my diagnosis. Gears are all seated snugly, belt is on and doing its job, bolts are all tightened, blades are facing the right direction, fbl unit set right. Could it be that there is a loose bearing on the tt? Thoughts?
Logo 700 tail issue (1 min 3 sec)


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Old 06-17-2019, 08:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Did you bolt the torque tube ends onto the end of the torque tube?

page 11 manual

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Old 06-17-2019, 08:38 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Are you using a gov? There’s really no load on the head, so the gov might not be responding correctly.
What fbl?
Just try a quick hover with main blades on..
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:49 AM   #4 (permalink)
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My first thought would be the governor since it is without blades. When you hold the head, can you spin the tail? Just to check if something is slipping or not assembled correctly
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:48 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Thx for the replies guys, much much appreciated.

1. The tt gears are bolted in per the manual. I will go back and check them over to make sure I'm not missing something.

2. I was able to get it up in the air with the mains on but it just does the same thing. I try keeping it low to the ground in case I loose the tail( I did one time but was able to set it down ). The gov seem to be holding fine, so is the tail when I use small jabs. It's when I apply almost or full rudder that things go south. I'm using a neo for fbl.

Question. When I have the tail boom disconnected from the heli, should I be able to slide the tt back and forth in the boom or should it be firmly secured with no movement. I have noticed that I'm able to move it back and forth, I thought maybe this could be causing power loss if the tube is disengaging. Then again I also figured it to be pretty secure once everything was bolted in place. Like I said, I new to tt. Thx again all!!

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Old 06-17-2019, 11:51 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. mark View Post
My first thought would be the governor since it is without blades. When you hold the head, can you spin the tail? Just to check if something is slipping or not assembled correctly
Just checked this one. Yes! I am able to spin the tail with the head held. It's a bit forced , but it is turning. Could that be a loose tt gears ya think

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Old 06-17-2019, 11:55 AM   #7 (permalink)
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What esc? Sounds like the end points arenít set for the esc. Iím using neo gov also and I love it. Easy to tune.
Make sure the yellow rpm wire from the esc is plugged into the rpm port.. make sure the polarity is correct.
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Old 06-17-2019, 12:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thx Tony, I will verify.

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Old 06-17-2019, 01:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Just checked this one. Yes! I am able to spin the tail with the head held. It's a bit forced , but it is turning. Could that be a loose tt gears ya think

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Ok, that’s a start. Now you have to find out where it slips. In the tail, or somewhere between the umbrella gear and the head?

Also, have you checked if the tail mechanic is smooth? I had a nasty tail wag caused by a little friction in the tail. On the bench everything was smooth, but once the tail was spinning there was some friction. Maybe the tail slider ‘sticks’ at some points

To test this I did the following: remove the blades and disconnect the tail rotor push rod. Now start the motor and the tail should center. If you move the L shaped lever to one side and release it, it should jump straight back to the center. If this only happens slowly there is probably some binding
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Old 06-17-2019, 04:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Ok, thatís a start. Now you have to find out where it slips. In the tail, or somewhere between the umbrella gear and the head?

Also, have you checked if the tail mechanic is smooth? I had a nasty tail wag caused by a little friction in the tail. On the bench everything was smooth, but once the tail was spinning there was some friction. Maybe the tail slider Ďsticksí at some points

To test this I did the following: remove the blades and disconnect the tail rotor push rod. Now start the motor and the tail should center. If you move the L shaped lever to one side and release it, it should jump straight back to the center. If this only happens slowly there is probably some binding
I was able to check things over a bit more. The tail is as smooth as I've ever seen one( maybe smoother). So I can't imagine that being the problem, no slop, no binding, just pure smooth. I did pull off the boom and tail assembly for a closer look at the tt couplings and bevel gears. So far all look good, just have to do a more thorough check.

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Old 06-17-2019, 09:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Just checked this one. Yes! I am able to spin the tail with the head held. It's a bit forced , but it is turning. Could that be a loose tt gears ya think

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If you can spin the tail and hold the head stationary, then something has to be slipping in the drive train. Look at the one way bearing, and the gears in between. My initial feeling is that either the front end or back end of the TT is not fitting properly into the bevel gears. It could either be from not having the boom all the way into the boom clamps in the frame, or the tail housing not being fully seated on the end of the boom.


I have seen that when you first insert the TT into the boom, you can sometimes feel it stop like it has seated into the gear, when it actually is just hitting the outer edge of the gear. Same thing when pressing the tail housing onto the boom. Once it stops, you may have to slightly rotate the TT to get it lined up with the gear opening.
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Old 06-18-2019, 10:03 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Now that's one item I have not checked yet, the one way bearing. I have for quite a few times now made sure everything was seated properly, both front and back ends of the tt. I think that was my initial problem because I noticed there was movement in the tail section even when it should have been bolted/braced in securely. I've since gotten it to where I can feel the tube slide to what I think is the right stopping point after twisting and pushing at the same time. sometimes I would have to turn the blades to line the gears up, then it go in place.

I have tried using a pair of pliers and carefully holding the back end of the tt that goes into the tail section, while I turn the head by hand. The head spins while my pliers don't. I've peeked in there(haven't really pulled things apart yet) and all the gears on the front end look and feel good. There is no chunky/crunchy sound or feeling and it's very smooth.

I will take a closer look at the one way next. Keep the replies coming, they are appreciated. Thank you

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Old 06-18-2019, 10:43 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The one way bearing appear to be shot. It is turning in the the locking direction. I will order a new one, replace and give an update

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Old 06-18-2019, 11:54 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Luckily not the most expensive problem, glad you found it

Was it a new one?
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Old 06-18-2019, 03:18 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Luckily not the most expensive problem, glad you found it

Was it a new one?


I know right. Fingers cross, hopefully thatís the only problem. I bought the heli used here on hf, so no it was not new.


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Old 06-18-2019, 03:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
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One other thing. Are you sure the pin that goes through the main shaft is seated correctly into the slot into the auto rotation pulley. If it is not, then that will allow the head to turn without the autorotation pulley being engaged or fixed. I would check that slot on the underside of the pulley.
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcflyerheli View Post
One other thing. Are you sure the pin that goes through the main shaft is seated correctly into the slot into the auto rotation pulley. If it is not, then that will allow the head to turn without the autorotation pulley being engaged or fixed. I would check that slot on the underside of the pulley.
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:19 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Good suggestion, although I know from experience that it doesn't fly when they pin is slipping 😞
I had mine coming out during a flight and the tail just stopped spinning
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:27 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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The one way bearing appear to be shot. It is turning in the the locking direction. I will order a new one, replace and give an update

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Are you sure you didn't install the one way assembly upside down? I did that when I first built my Logo 700.
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:49 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Dmuse View Post
Are you sure you didn't install the one way assembly upside down? I did that when I first built my Logo 700.
I'm sure of it. The helicopter was flying great already. This whole issue stems from a minor crash I had a couple weeks ago. Got a bit too low on a funnel, picked some dirt and lost my tail. I was able to hit TH, gain some altitude and bring her back down, not perfect of course. I did loose my mains , one of my tail blades (the one that hit )and a lower frame side broke. I've since check everything over ( obviously minus the OW )and I can't find any more damage. Like I said , the TT is new to me so that is the only part I was really worried about having to deal with. After following the advice given from you guys and doing some reading, it and all the gears, bearings directly related to it seem to be good.
But again, to answer your question, yes the OW was installed properly. Thx !!


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