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500 Class Electric Helicopters 500 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 07-18-2008, 05:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Very disappointed consumer

I can not believe how poor the quality of the hardware is that this kit comes with. How soft the screw heads are combined with the hex inside them not really being the 1.5mm that is claimed is just rediculous. I waited for a long time to own one of these helli's based on what I have seen in videos and what people have said about how they fly. Now that I have the kit on my table, I am angry. I have built other T-Rex helicopters and not had the problems with hardware.
Align really dropped the ball here. The answers that I have read for this problem are simply unacceptable like buying a new screw kit, or having to use the "Align" tools.
Nobody should have to purchase replacement hardware in order to properly put a kit together. Replacement hardware should be reserved as an upgrade, not a necessity.
Now here I sit with a T-Rex 500 CF kit that an assembled head and the frame sides are connected loosely with the factory screws. They are close to tight, but not tight. The washers all spin and most of the screw heads are stripped. I tried to remove the screw using a standard equivalent like someone else suggested and no go. It is starting to look like I will have to use small vise-grip pliers and ruin the washers to remove these POS screws while praying that I don't ruin the frame sides.

This is probably the worst experience I have had building anything R/C in the 16 years that I have been in the hobby.
Complete BS!
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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tell us how you really feel

all i can say is your driver must have been worn, allthough your not the first to complain those with good tools have not had a issue.

i feel your pain and yes a quality allen screw kit is nice BUT i didnt and none of my friends have stripped not 1 screw yet.
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Even after a rebuild after a crash I have yet to strip a screw!
BUT I am using the Align tools...

This is NOT NEW and has been a much discussed issue way back on the original 450!. Screws made in China (not just Align) seem to have a slightly over sized hex size... Even good USA made hex tools don't fit them right.

However if your that PO'ed about a tool issue to get rid of one of the BEST electric helis out there rather then spend $20 on the Align tool set... So be it.. You will miss flying a kick arse heli... See ya next time and sorry... But don;t let the hex tool kick you in the rear on the way out the door

Bob
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Tron~ View Post
The answers that I have read for this problem are simply unacceptable like buying a new screw kit, or having to use the "Align" tools.
Nobody should have to purchase replacement hardware in order to properly put a kit together.
If you - contrary to the advice "everybody" is giving - "refuse" to buy a $20,- set of Align tools for your $500,- Align heli, you have chosen your own destiny.

Using the Align hex tools I have not had one single screw coming even close to stripping, and all my screws are tight.

Good luck with your repair

Peter
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I don't use Align tools.

I have a 500.

None of my screws are stripped, and are all most likely TIGHTER than most people would tighten them(I'm very obsessive).

Also, I would think that if I was building a heli kit and I stripped one screw... maybe even two screws... I would STOP and figure out what the hell was going wrong.

Throw your hex driver in the trash can, get one that fits the hardware properly.
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Also, I would think that if I was building a heli kit and I stripped one screw... maybe even two screws... I would STOP and figure out what the hell was going wrong.
That is exactly what I thought when I read the initial post in this thread. One screw and I would have been on the edge of my seat, two and I would have stopped.

Bob
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Tron~ View Post
I can not believe how poor the quality of the hardware is that this kit comes with. How soft the screw heads are combined with the hex inside them not really being the 1.5mm that is claimed is just rediculous. I waited for a long time to own one of these helli's based on what I have seen in videos and what people have said about how they fly. Now that I have the kit on my table, I am angry. I have built other T-Rex helicopters and not had the problems with hardware.
Align really dropped the ball here. The answers that I have read for this problem are simply unacceptable like buying a new screw kit, or having to use the "Align" tools.
Nobody should have to purchase replacement hardware in order to properly put a kit together. Replacement hardware should be reserved as an upgrade, not a necessity.
Now here I sit with a T-Rex 500 CF kit that an assembled head and the frame sides are connected loosely with the factory screws. They are close to tight, but not tight. The washers all spin and most of the screw heads are stripped. I tried to remove the screw using a standard equivalent like someone else suggested and no go. It is starting to look like I will have to use small vise-grip pliers and ruin the washers to remove these POS screws while praying that I don't ruin the frame sides.

This is probably the worst experience I have had building anything R/C in the 16 years that I have been in the hobby.
Complete BS!

Take a deep breath.............Ahhhhhh LOL

Even my very expensive PB (swiss made) allen wrench sets will not fit Asian made hardware correctly ( Japanese yes, but not the China/Taiwan stuff). The Chinese created there own screw standards, or lack there of.

Just buy the Align drivers and go have fun.
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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i love the 500 build as im still working on mine atm...

only thing i found that was cheap made and didn't like was the plastic nuts to hold the servos...

with they were machine screws into plastic with counter sunk nuts

other then that very pleased with the quality
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Built and rebuilt and rebuilt, etc, etc - never stripped a screw - without the Align tool kit. Quality IMHO is not a major issue relative to this superior flying heli.
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I had the same problem, but after the first screw head striped I used a pear of grips with the bad screw in them and taped the rest of the holes out with that.
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I have high-quality Hirobo drivers. Virtually all my 1.5mm screws had some sort of problem.

After the third or fourth, I noticed that the "anodizing" on the screws was coming off.


Maybe it all comes down to quality control and tollerances. Some people have problems and some don't. But if the answer is "buy Align's tools", then that is a real crap answer.

Why even call them 1.5mm sockets? Just call them Align Blue Driver sockets or something. But if Align wants to call them 1.5mm, then they better darn well be 1.5mm and work with everything from a Craftsman 1.5mm to Align 1.5mm.


Maybe we should all chip in a nickel and send a set of digital calipers to Taiwan. They obviously have lost theirs...
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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come on people!! You are all missing the point here. I fully understand and agree with tread starter. If you buy a kit with instructions that say you have to have a 1,5mm , 2mm , 2,5mm and 3mm hex wrench, thats exactly what it says. I have been a mechanic for 11 years and own my own very high quality set of all the tools any hobbyist would ever need, and been in the rc hobby for 15 years +. I have to say, that I have never ever seen such crappy quality screws on any kit I have ever build! It should not bee like this, if align hex tools are needed this should have been stated. and call themselves align is kind of pushing the envelope a bit if you ask me. This is a personal opinion and I certainly stand by it.

Keep in mind as a professional mechanic i always replace worn out/ damaged tools.

But still.. I suggest treadstarter to either buy a align hex tool or buy a screw upgrade kit an live happily ever after. Because the 500 is a super bird hands down.

Never the less, it should not be like this. And I am sure most of you really do agree on this.
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default No stripers here

I had a great time building the 500, I used the Integy hex drivers, they are not cheap... but neither am I!
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:24 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xptical View Post
I have high-quality Hirobo drivers. Virtually all my 1.5mm screws had some sort of problem.

After the third or fourth, I noticed that the "anodizing" on the screws was coming off.


Maybe it all comes down to quality control and tollerances. Some people have problems and some don't. But if the answer is "buy Align's tools", then that is a real crap answer.

Why even call them 1.5mm sockets? Just call them Align Blue Driver sockets or something. But if Align wants to call them 1.5mm, then they better darn well be 1.5mm and work with everything from a Craftsman 1.5mm to Align 1.5mm.


Maybe we should all chip in a nickel and send a set of digital calipers to Taiwan. They obviously have lost theirs...
beet me to it
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xptical View Post
I have high-quality Hirobo drivers. Virtually all my 1.5mm screws had some sort of problem.

After the third or fourth, I noticed that the "anodizing" on the screws was coming off.


Maybe it all comes down to quality control and tollerances. Some people have problems and some don't. But if the answer is "buy Align's tools", then that is a real crap answer.

Why even call them 1.5mm sockets? Just call them Align Blue Driver sockets or something. But if Align wants to call them 1.5mm, then they better darn well be 1.5mm and work with everything from a Craftsman 1.5mm to Align 1.5mm.


Maybe we should all chip in a nickel and send a set of digital calipers to Taiwan. They obviously have lost theirs...
I agree. I first thought the tool was the issue. But then when I test fit multiple allen wrenches with the same result, I got my answer.
The tools I am using are not worn, I even tried a brand new allen key for giggles and it fit the same. I refuse to be defeated by any airplane/heli, so I have tried to remedy this issue by tapping all of the holes with an actual tap and proceeding. Then I came to the front pulley assembly for the tail. Even though I tapped the holes, the screws that went directly from the parts bag to the holes (to ensure I am using the right ones) still stripped before bottoming in the holes. 4 out of 8 anyway.
I think it's funny that most people's answer is to buy something extra in order to make something right that should be right in the first place.
Ploy by Align maybe?
We'll never know.
Like I said in the beginning, I shure hope this thing live's up to it's reputation for all the trouble i'm having to go through.
I asked my buddy @ my LHS about this (who builds multiple heli's for customer's and is known by Fireup, possibly Bob and many other local fliers to be a very reliable source. He said he has had the same problem on the last few 500's he's built for customers.
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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YES guys the Align screws leave something to be desired, but they do work OK. The same goes for the bearings they use. They work just good enough to accomplish the task, nothing more.

I think if they were to switch to quality fasteners and ABEC 3 bearings, they would have to bump the prices up on all there helis. It would make the upfront purchase price less appealing and may cost them some customers.

Maybe they could offer it as an option ?

Speaking of bearings........I have a theory that the bearings that come with the Align kits are actually a lower grade than the bearings Align sells as direct replacements. The kit bearings seem sloppy. Has anyone else observed this ? I'm not sure if an ABEC 0.5 grade exists, but if it does I think Align is definately making use of them. LOL
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:32 PM   #17 (permalink)
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My story is similar to 8-ball. I was an auto machanic for 8 years and had my own shop for 5 years building race cars and repairing sports cars. I am no dummy when it comes to tools and fitment.
What I'm thinking the problem might be is a combination of the head not really being 1.5mm and also some sort of binding between the coating on the screw and the plastic. I think this because I still had an issue after tapping threads in the plastic.
They start fine, just start to feel tight once they get about half to two thirds of the way in.
I'm not questioning whether or not the heli is good. That seems to have been proven. I did not have these problems when repairing my 450 or when building or repairing the two 600 T-Rex's I have owned and just am very surprised to be having them now.
I am still very frustrated with all of this and feel like if you really need "Align" tools, they should say that on the "outside" of the box.
Whatever the issue is, Align should take note and address it.
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:54 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I am sorry to hear of your troubles, I hope I wont be running into that problem when I get mine. I have yet to strip a screw in my current heli but my buddy does all the time with the same heli, he has constant problems with things letting go while in flight or just not tightening up anymore. And a sidenote that might be noteworthy, I am also a mechanic by trade. Mercedes to be specific and the fasteners are very picky about what tools you use on them. When you are talking about the common metric socket craftsman does not cut it many a time, the walls are too thick and will not allow access to many fasteners due to this. At the minimum you have to use snap on tools. And when it comes to allen bolts or torx or E torx sometimes the snap on tool does not cut it, you need to really just break down and use the specified german made tool. Stahlwille or Hazet.
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:06 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Oh sorry I didnt include this in the first post but my buddy is also a mechanic by trade but he is used to working with much bigger fasteners (diesel tech). Not only that but the europeans and asians have been using metric fasteners and tools much longer than us americans.
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Old 07-19-2008, 12:30 AM   #20 (permalink)
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So strange.. I got my 500 last night and started a build today. Ended up with a few nuts that the hex driver just spun in... Eyed the head of the driver and it looked a bit worn.. Called a local hobby shop, drive 7 miles, collected a new set for $45!! Ouch! But, man, they're great! Nice and heavy... and all my nuts are tight... mm.. sounds bad... All the nuts on my HELI are tight.

HOWEVER - I followed finless's videos, but found quite a few differences. Some servo rods are shorted than the manual says... This confused me... but I have continued, and all looks good. I did managed to 'break' my mixing arm though.. https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...673#post772673

I'd put thaty down to poor quality .. it's happened before. And I never over tightened... So, Align scored another $30 out of me when I have to replace it.

Other than that, I've had a ball so far. I'm up to the servo installation, but as my servos haven't arrived... I've had to stop... Darn... But, nice heli. I agree with the rest - get better hex drivers... I just did - and it fixed the problem.
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