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360CFX Blade 360 CFX Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 09-27-2019, 05:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 360cfx: chasing down vibrations

I have a vibration problem with my 360cfx. During spool up and spool down it will shake violently at a certain headspeed on the way up and way down. Seems to be ok at full RPM, but who knows since I have no vibration logs with the 636.


First thing I noticed is the OWB on the main shaft seems to have a sticking spot where the main shaft rotates less freely at a certain spot. Could that be the cause of the vibration? I'm wondering because that OWB should be locked when its under power right?
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Old 09-27-2019, 05:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Ok - perhaps my blades have become unbalanced? I just spooled it up with no main or tail blades on and no shaking ... I'll check blades.
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Old 09-27-2019, 06:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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blade CG seems to be correct (at least within 1mm).


Blade balance may be off.... one blade weighs 28g the other one weighs 32g ... Not sure how close you should try to be?


EDIT: Never mind - the blades both weigh 30g ... an item was interfering with the blades laying on the scale correctly.
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Old 09-28-2019, 05:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
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It seems that there may be a bearing problem in one of the blade grips. One of them is notchy like a multi-position dial control (or whatever they are called). Not sure if that would cause the violent shaking or not, but I'm sure it can't be good.



Whats more likely broken here - the thrust bearing (I think that is the name of it - the one you put together between the shims and so forth inside the grip arm) or the sealed bearing (I think there is just one) embedded in the grip arm?
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Old 09-28-2019, 05:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Have you pulled the grips to inspect bearings? If not thats what I would suggest doing.
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Old 09-28-2019, 05:44 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I have pulled off the one that is notchy so far. I should have ordered a feather shaft wrench ... out of stock now! I'd like to take the whole thing apart and inspect everything but don't know how to get the other bolt out without one of those wrenches I just learned existed in the last couple weeks.
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Old 09-28-2019, 05:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Once you have one side out you can't slide the feathering shaft out?
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Old 09-28-2019, 06:49 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blarks View Post
Once you have one side out you can't slide the feathering shaft out?

Yes - I can .. but I can't get the bolt out to get the other side's thrust bearing and such out.


BTW. Should the feathering shaft be tight in there? It doesn't spin freely ... it will spin, but with some effort...
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Old 09-28-2019, 06:53 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Yes - I can .. but I can't get the bolt out to get the other side's thrust bearing and such out.


BTW. Should the feathering shaft be tight in there? It doesn't spin freely ... it will spin, but with some effort...
you should be able to get the shaft out even with 1 bolt still in there, although I'm not familiar with the 360. No the shaft should spin freely.
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Old 09-28-2019, 06:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blarks View Post
you should be able to get the shaft out even with 1 bolt still in there, although I'm not familiar with the 360. No the shaft should spin freely.

Ok - then I've got some sort of problem with it ... going to try to get a piece of glass today at walmart so I can roll the shaft on there when i get it out. Perhaps its bent. I have a replacement already, but I want to understand whats going on for the future.


EDIT: Wife thinks they have like mirror things you can set candles on that are made of glass at walmart
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Old 09-28-2019, 06:59 AM   #11 (permalink)
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If needed put something of a slightly smaller diameter on it and tap it out from the side you got the bolt off of. Sounds like your problem(s) are there.

BTW often you can get bearings generically and at a much cheaper price. I've done that several times. If you don't have a micrometer/caliper you can get one for $10 here:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DFFYCXS/
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Old 09-28-2019, 07:00 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Ok - then I've got some sort of problem with it ... going to try to get a piece of glass today at walmart so I can roll the shaft on there when i get it out. Perhaps its bent. I have a replacement already, but I want to understand whats going on for the future.


EDIT: Wife thinks they have like mirror things you can set candles on that are made of glass at walmart
Sorry internet took a dump, No I just looked quickly and I see now why you can't get the shaft out. But regardless of that it should spin freely so yeah you will have to try and get the shaft out.
Also easy way to check if its bent is to reassemble the head without blades and stick a hex driver in one side and turn the bolt and watch the opposite side, if the blade grip wobbles then your shaft is bent. I mean not "your" shaft but the feathering shaft
Like this
How to check if helicopter Feathering Spindle shaft is bent without removal (2 min 0 sec)
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Old 09-28-2019, 03:46 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Ok - Got some time to work on it again. I took the feathering shaft out. It only required finger force to get it out. The tight part is the rubber dampeners. They are quite tight.

I rolled it on a mirror and it seems straight (had to have part of it hanging off due to the other bolt still being installed). I then reassembled temporarily and was able to perform the steps like in the video above to see if its bent. The blade grip does not appear to wobble or anything while I spin the shaft with a hex wrench on either side.


This thing shakes like crazy (at a certain RPM in spool up and down) with the blades on and not at all with the blades off ...


Here is a video of it spooling up and controls operated without blades on:
360cfx no blades (no vibration) (1 min 0 sec)
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Old 09-29-2019, 05:02 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I have ordered a feathering shaft wrench and shall take the other bolt off so that i can clean everything and regrease there. I can't seem to find a problem in that area.


The only thing I can find is that the auto-rotation OWB assembly has a point in the rotation where it gets harder to turn. Not sure that would cause a vibration, however, under power as it would be engaged and spinning with everything else...
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Old 09-29-2019, 05:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I have ordered a feathering shaft wrench and shall take the other bolt off so that i can clean everything and regrease there. I can't seem to find a problem in that area.


The only thing I can find is that the auto-rotation OWB assembly has a point in the rotation where it gets harder to turn. Not sure that would cause a vibration, however, under power as it would be engaged and spinning with everything else...
Did You discover the harder to turn point by simply rotating the head?

If so...You could have an out-of-round main gear

Find that point in the rotation...it may well be gear/pinion mesh...at that point...loosen the motor mount screws (don't need to move the motor) then retighten them and test the rotation again

Might take several attempts to find a sweet spot

Double-check the mesh by inserting a thin strip of paper between pinion/gear - crinkled is good...cuts means too tight
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Old 09-29-2019, 08:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Yes on the out of round main gears, Blades quality control is definitely lacking here. I have had several of the new main gears egg shaped.Got to watch because some of them are so bad that they will barely mesh on low side when it is correct on the high side.This will cause the gear to strip under a full power maneuver and lead to a crash or cause erratic flight due to vibration effect on FBL.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJet View Post
Did You discover the harder to turn point by simply rotating the head?

If so...You could have an out-of-round main gear

Find that point in the rotation...it may well be gear/pinion mesh...at that point...loosen the motor mount screws (don't need to move the motor) then retighten them and test the rotation again

Might take several attempts to find a sweet spot

Double-check the mesh by inserting a thin strip of paper between pinion/gear - crinkled is good...cuts means too tight
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Old 09-30-2019, 12:17 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Default 360cfx: chasing down vibrations

Darren, Iíve had Oxy helis that will wobble and freak out on spool up/down. It was due to (1) spooling on hard surface like concrete and (2) having unequal and too tight main grips tensions.



Try loosening your main grip bolts a bit and see if it still happens.

Here is my video from earlier this year in January. Watch the spool down part and youíll see it jiggle like crazy. The issue went away when I tightened the main grip bolts equally or go to carpet or grass. (I have no idea why this video is as long as it is... WTF was I thinking)

Brand new Oxy 2 vibration issue (3 min 22 sec)
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Old 09-30-2019, 01:58 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Two things i want to tell: all stock main gears are unround. I changed to Lynx Heli main gear. It's milled on CNC mill, perfectly round. 136 T, really. The "136T" Blade Main Gear has 135T.

I had vibrations caused of wornout main bearings. Changed them, and thought why don't change spindle aswell. Vibrations keept persisting. Startet to interchange everything from my second 360 and It turned out: the brandnew spindle was bent. Changed it, there are allways two in a pack - no more vibrations. So be aware: brandnew parts can be faulty aswell.
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Old 09-30-2019, 05:23 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJet View Post
Did You discover the harder to turn point by simply rotating the head?

If so...You could have an out-of-round main gear

Find that point in the rotation...it may well be gear/pinion mesh...at that point...loosen the motor mount screws (don't need to move the motor) then retighten them and test the rotation again

Might take several attempts to find a sweet spot

Double-check the mesh by inserting a thin strip of paper between pinion/gear - crinkled is good...cuts means too tight

Well, the main gear isn't spinning at all. Its not difficult to spin it with the motor (well, no more difficult than you would expect). Its when its spinning without the main gear turning (such as when you would be doing an Auto - not that I know how to do that...)


Quote:
Originally Posted by xoexoe View Post
Darren, I’ve had Oxy helis that will wobble and freak out on spool up/down. It was due to (1) spooling on hard surface like concrete and (2) having unequal and too tight main grips tensions.

Try loosening your main grip bolts a bit and see if it still happens.

Here is my video from earlier this year in January. Watch the spool down part and you’ll see it jiggle like crazy. The issue went away when I tightened the main grip bolts equally or go to carpet or grass. (I have no idea why this video is as long as it is... WTF was I thinking)

I am spooling up/down on a purpose built heli pad. Perhaps my blades are/were too loose. They didn't end up askew like yours after spool down. Other differences with your video is the shaking is more violent and happens on both spoolup and down. This is a similar procedure to how I check blade tension:
How to Adjust Blade Tension (0 min 28 sec)
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Old 09-30-2019, 05:35 AM   #20 (permalink)
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BTW, the 360cfx seems to allow no adjustment of motor or main gear placement. Not sure how you would adjust the mesh... There are just screw holes ... no swing slot or anything that I can see tho I've never had the motor off...
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