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360CFX Blade 360 CFX Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 10-09-2019, 06:28 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BrokeDad View Post
You can still get Hirobo Shuttle parts from Japan just FYI although I'm guessing it's not worth it if you can source something else.
Haha! Never would have guessed that. Not exactly a memorable heli, but I guess it was as close to a trainer as you could get back then.
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Old 10-18-2019, 02:48 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Ok - I think I learned something today.



I was starting up by hitting TH and placing my stick mid stick in normal mode and then releasing TH. This would result in the heli tail shifting 90 to 180 degrees to the right (on a wooden pad). I usually set the heli down with the tail pointing to the left to compensate. During this type of spoolup was when I would get the vibrations.



Today, I did not use TH and instead raised the stick slowly to mid stick letting the heli spool up real slow. This removed the vibrations and stopped the unwanted shifting of the tail to the right.


I think maybe this included Blade ESC does not have a soft start?


Anyways - it flew OK. Still has the tail wag. I was able to mostly get rid of it by raising "gyro" to about 85%. Its pretty much always had a tail wag. Is that pretty normal with 360cfx?
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Old 10-18-2019, 03:57 PM   #43 (permalink)
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My 360CFX has always had a tail wag. It holds and has never blown out. If I go higher than 65% on the gain I get a bad chadder on the tail. Never have figured it out.
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:25 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
I was able to mostly get rid of it by raising "gyro" to about 85%.
Are we talking about the 360cfx 3S? This is AR636 FBL. You might look in Your manual at page 10 how to acces the gain menu, and at page 9 to learn which parameter will help to solve tail wag. Parameters 5 to 7 are for tail gyro gain, you should increase parameter 5 (tail P-Gain) to stop a slow wag, decrease if tail is oscillating.


Quote:
My 360CFX has always had a tail wag. It holds and has never blown out. If I go higher than 65% on the gain I get a bad chadder on the tail. Never have figured it out.
Same issue - same solution.
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:26 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mhanley View Post
My 360CFX has always had a tail wag. It holds and has never blown out. If I go higher than 65% on the gain I get a bad chadder on the tail. Never have figured it out.

Yea - I think I'm just going to accept it ... it flies ok even with the intermittent tail wag...
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Old 10-20-2019, 08:53 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I haven't been able to get the tail wag out of my 360CFX (3s) either. It was there in stock form, and has persisted through changing out the FBL to a Spirit Pro, and most recently replaced stock ESC with a Castle Talon 60amp. I have the tail gain control mapped to my adjustment knob on DX18 transmitter. I've even tweaked the knob while in flight (hovering). The best is a small, fast wag at 100% gain. Lower gains make the wag slower, but bigger (in amplitude or swing). I prefer fast and small. I think the stock tail rotor pitch control mechanics have excessive play. Next step it to upgrade all of that. I'm also going to try the CNC main drive gear, perhaps first.
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Old 10-21-2019, 05:28 AM   #47 (permalink)
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yep - thanks for this - I was thinking about getting a different servo but you have already tried all of that it seems so I don't have too
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Old 10-21-2019, 12:01 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fiddle View Post
yep - thanks for this - I was thinking about getting a different servo but you have already tried all of that it seems so I don't have too
Well no, a different tail servo is one thing I haven't tried - yet! But I have one for that (not a spektrum). Maybe I'll try that next, quick and easy swap-a-roo.
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Old 10-21-2019, 12:05 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I once had a Fusion 270 with constant wag. Couldn't get rid of it. I tried changing the FBL to an iK2n but that didn't work, so I put the stock FBL back in. Then I tried a new servo for the tail (KST 215MG V3), but that didn't work. So finally I tried installing BOTH the iK2N and the KST tail servo. That worked, no wag.

I suspect there was a mechanical issue that was causing binding, and the extra good servo combined with an extra good FBL were just masking the issue.

Not sure what the point of this story is. ... Oh yeah, when in doubt, throw money at the problem.
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Old 10-21-2019, 01:26 PM   #50 (permalink)
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The stock H3060 servo is fast and strong enough for the job. In my 6s 360cfx performs fine, even with three blade head and plenty of weight.
Tail mechanics has to move very smooth, thats the first you should pay attention to.

Quote:
I have the tail gain control mapped to my adjustment knob on DX18 transmitter. I've even tweaked the knob while in flight (hovering).
You did that with AR636 in Blade 360cfx? Useless.


This is taken from the Blade 360cfx 3S Manual:

Quote:
Adjusting the Gain Values
If you are using a Spektrum™ telemetry-enabled transmitter, the gain
adjustments can be viewed on the Flight Log screen. Refer to your transmitter
instructions to locate this screen. The gain parameter currently selected will flash
on the transmitter screen. If you are not using a Spektrum telemetry-enabled
transmitter, the parameter and gain values are indicated by the position of the
swashplate on the helicopter

Once you have entered Gain Adjustment Mode, you can move the cyclic stick
forward and back to select the gain parameter you would like to adjust. Moving the
stick aft will select the next parameter. Moving the stick will select the previous
parameter.
The selected gain parameter is indicated on the Flight Log screen and by the lean
of the swashplate on the roll axis. The current gain value for the
selected parameter is indicated on
the Flight Log screen and by the angle of the swashplate (forward or
backward) as shown in the table at the right.
Move the cyclic stick left to right to adjust the gain value. Moving the
stick right will increase the gain value. Moving the stick left will decrease the gain
value.

5. Tailrotor P Gain Adjustment (Default 100%)
Higher gain will result in greater stability. Setting the gain too high may result
in random twitches if your model has an excessive level of vibration. High frequency
oscillations may also occur if the gain is set too high.
Lower gain may result in a decrease in stability. Too low of a value may result in a
less stable model particularly outdoors in winds.
If you are located at a higher altitude or in a warmer climate, higher gains may be
beneficial—the opposite is true for lower altitude or colder climates.
6. Tailrotor I Gain Adjustment (Default 100%)
Higher gain results in the tail remaining still. If the gain is raised too far, low speed
oscillations may occur.
Lower gain will result in the tail drifting in flight over time.
If you are located at a higher altitude or in a warmer climate, higher gains may be
beneficial—the opposite is true for lower altitude or colder climates.
7. Tailrotor D Gain Adjustment (Default 100%)
Higher gain will improve the response rate to your inputs. If raised too far, high
frequency oscillations may occur.
Lower gain will slow down the response to inputs, but will not have an effect on
stability
So, tail gain adjustment is made in the gain-menu of AR636. No adjustement knob can serve that.
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Old 10-21-2019, 01:40 PM   #51 (permalink)
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huh - what have i been changing? I have dx8 g2 ... I found a "Gyro" setting in the main menu. It has four settings (normal , IU1, IU2, Hold) with different percentages. Those percentages are what I've been changing to adjust my tail ... is that not the tail? What have I been adjusting ?
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:35 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Quote:
What have I been adjusting ?
Well, simply nothing.

According to manual page 5, for DX8 G2, Chanel 5 (Gear) is Switch B - wich is Flightmode Switch. Gyro is assigned to channel Gear, and giving the AR636 FBL values of 85, 80 an 75 - you switch the FBL in Normal, Stunt 1, or Stunt 2 flightmode. This makes the FBL choose the throttle- and pitch-kurves you have assigned to this flightmodes.
So, instead of turning that knob, you might aswell have switched the flightmode-switch, would have had done (nearly) the same.
But this is only what i read out of the manual, anyone could do. I do not own a 360cfx 3S.
(and i apologize for my poor english)
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Old 10-22-2019, 05:19 AM   #53 (permalink)
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shoot - well - adjusting the tail gain sounds like a real pain in the back side ... I'm going to let it continue to wag away ... I will quite enjoy connecting to the Brain2 from my phone on the oxy 4 max I have coming and making adjustments that way! forget this moving sticks around on the transmitter and watching for swash movements mumbo jumbo.
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Old 10-22-2019, 09:17 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
forget this moving sticks around on the transmitter and watching for swash movements mumbo jumbo.
You dont have to watch for swash movings, except you use the simple DXe radio.
Every other DX radio will show you the gain values via telemetry in screen. (roll wheel to right twice)
Seems you don`t even try it - and seems you dont`t even read the manual.
Your DX8 G2 (and all new generation Spektrum radios with actual airware) is capable of foward programming, in addition. This makes adjusting gains very comfortable - but you have to read the manual.
Of course you can let it wag - if you like so. But some did change FBL to spirit or brain because of this issue, so i thought i should mention it...
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Old 10-22-2019, 11:01 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
I have the tail gain control mapped to my adjustment knob on DX18 transmitter. I've even tweaked the knob while in flight (hovering).
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fox View Post

You did that with AR636 in Blade 360cfx? Useless.

So, tail gain adjustment is made in the gain-menu of AR636. No adjustement knob can serve that.
Nope - I use that knob with a Spirit Pro on my Blade 360cfx. I can turn it in flight, and watch the tail wag change - but not disapear. I can have a big slow wag, or a small fast wag, and every wag inbetween. Total adjustability!
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Old 10-22-2019, 12:22 PM   #56 (permalink)
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It seems that I may have been adjusting the tail gain (gyro gain) according to 360cfx manual:





Thats where I was making the changes ... in the "Gyro" menu.
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Old 10-22-2019, 12:43 PM   #57 (permalink)
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There are also cyclic gains. I normally adjust those in the FBL software. Some FBL's even separate them out and let you adjust elevator and aileron PID's independently. Recently I had to tweak them on my 450X as it was getting elevator wobble in FFF but would stop when I slowed down. Other things are Feed Forward gain, etc. It all gets a bit mind numbing to wrap your head around when new.
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Old 10-22-2019, 12:46 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeDad View Post
There are also cyclic gains. I normally adjust those in the FBL software. Some FBL's even separate them out into elevator and aileron PID's. Recently I had to tweak them on my 450X as it was getting elevator wobble in FFF but would stop when I slowed down. Other things are Feed Forward gain, etc. It all gets a bit mind numbing to wrap your head around when new.

Indeed - thankfully, the 360cfx flies perfect as far as that sort of stuff goes. You can be in FFF and do a piro and it all remains level - no problem. The only problem is this tail wag. Seems that everyone has it with this model tho ... I don't think the tail could get any smoother mechanically. It does bind at the extremes of travel in either direction but that is farther than the servo goes...
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Old 10-22-2019, 12:49 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Perhaps try adjusting Cyclic Precompensation for the tail and see if that will get the wag to go away. And no I don't know how that is done on the AR636.
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Old 10-22-2019, 01:06 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeDad View Post
Perhaps try adjusting Cyclic Precompensation for the tail and see if that will get the wag to go away. And no I don't know how that is done on the AR636.

This?


Tailrotor P Gain Adjustment (Default 100%)
Higher gain will result in greater stability. Setting the gain too high may result
in random twitches if your model has an excessive level of vibration. High frequency oscillations may also occur if the gain is set too high.

Lower gain may result in a decrease in stability. Too low of a value may result in a less stable model particularly outdoors in winds.
If you are located at a higher altitude or in a warmer climate, higher gains may be beneficial—the opposite is true for lower altitude or colder climates.
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