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Old 10-18-2019, 10:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default help with vbar and esc set up

I cant find any video on set up for vbar or the esc that comes with the fire ball competition???? can anyone help? do i need the multi function lcd box? and if i do why dont they say something in all the ads. i tried setting up other in esc wizard but it dint want to do anything. i hate to shelf a brand new sab untill i get around to spending days trying to figure out anything
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Old 10-18-2019, 11:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ferret View Post
I cant find any video on set up for vbar or the esc that comes with the fire ball competition???? can anyone help? do i need the multi function lcd box? and if i do why dont they say something in all the ads. i tried setting up other in esc wizard but it dint want to do anything. i hate to shelf a brand new sab untill i get around to spending days trying to figure out anything
The esc should already be set up nothing to do to it. Just put in your throttle curves in TX and your're done then do your fbl setup.
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Old 10-20-2019, 07:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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i found the page lol it was late and i was tired
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Old 10-28-2019, 03:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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What page? I was just trying to set up my Mini Comet ESC with a Vcontrol. The Vbar is not reading the rpm, if that is what the single orange wire coming from the SAB HW ESC is. So I don't know if I can use the Vcontrol gov with that ESC...
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Old 10-28-2019, 04:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yes there is a video from Kyle Stacy somewhere explaining this. But the ESC that comes with the Fireball is a Hobbywing 60A programmed on Gov Store mode. So in theory if you want to use the ESC governor you don't need anything. Just calibrate (RPM standardization) your ESC to your battery.

To do this have a fully charged battery. Turn on your radio and then engage Throttle Hold but keep your throttle stick at 50%. You need to be on a flight mode that has a throttle and pitch curves where mid-stick is 50% throttle and 0 pitch. Then connect your battery and wait for initialization. Then make sure you are on a safe place outdoors and disengage TH. I think the manual says 20 seconds but I run it for about a minute. Just let it lay there on the ground running at 0 pitch and 50% throttle. After that engage TH and go and disconnect your flight pack. The ESC has now been calibrated per the output of your battery permanently.

Now, the manual says that you have to change governor mode of the ESC back and forth and only the first time the ESC boots up after a change it will go into RPM standardization mode. However Kyle has indicated that the ESC will know your intentions if it detects it's spooling up at 50% throttle and remaining there. Regardless the changes between your battery and what is stored on the governor should be very small and probably only someone like Kyle would notice the difference.

But if you want to be picky, then yes you would need to buy the programming box. Connect to the ESC and boot up then change to another gov mode (ELF Gov, Heli, Airplane), disconnect to save the change (after saving the "soft" change via the prog box) and do it again to change to Gov Store. Then do your RPM standardization as described above. The box doesn't need to continue to be connected so remove it.

If you want to use the FBL governor, then you need to buy the prog box as a MUST. Because you need to DISABLE the Gov Store mode and put it on Airplane or Heli, that is any option other than ELF or Store to avoid having two conflicting governors. Then you need a servo extension wire because the RPM out cable is too short to reach the FBL. I think this is made on purpose to avoid people from connecting it and running into the conflicting governor scenario.

Kyle keeps saying he does not use the FBL gov and he has been flying NEO forever. He always uses the ESC gov and well, you know how well he flies and how much he stresses the system. Granted he has way more control than any of us mortals so he knows how to manage the collective but still he really knows his stuff and has not needed FBL gov to do what he does.

Finally if you end up going the FBL gov route you have to search around as you have to setup your gear ratio and motor poles accordingly. There is no pinion gear or two-stage transmission so the ratio is 1 but I don't have the motor pole count to configure your FBL gov. Remember the ESC outputs its raw RPM so it's up to the FBL to do the math to convert that to headspeed RPM so you need to input the proper parameters.

Nice thing about FBL gov is you get to know your actual head RPM and can use the feature (if available on your FBL) to log the flight RPM fluctuations to troubleshoot or optimize your gearing (of course not applicable on the Fireball).

Cheers!
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Old 10-28-2019, 05:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Excellent post. I had made a mistake by setting the NEO Gov gear ratio to zero. I changed it to 1.0 and it started reporting rpm. But it was running erratically because I guess competing gov inputs. Then I switched from ElfGov (didn't really know what that is but it came setup on that) to Heli LineTH (linear throttle). Luckily I already own a HW Program box. Then I was able to set rpm so all is good. I reduced the gain to 20 as it was hunting, but that is blades off. As you said I just like seeing the rpm and setting it with the Vcontrol, max rpm with Vcontrol is 4800 on mine. Close enough. Test flight in the yard went fine.
Tail is wagging but I guess I expected that...
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Old 10-28-2019, 08:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I should chime in and report i figured it out its just i wish i could record flight data like with my castle esc but i supose i would need a programing cable like the one i have with the 160 edge. only because i am experimenting with wider blades and dont want to burn out the esc or motor
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Old 10-29-2019, 08:19 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Did you figure out using the ESC gov or the FBL gov?

I don't know what FBL you are using but if you want RPM logging only there is another option. You can connect your RPM wire, setup the gearing and just log the RPM. Simply do not enable the FBL governor. Most FBL I know allow you to do this to just log your RPM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ferret View Post
I should chime in and report i figured it out its just i wish i could record flight data like with my castle esc but i supose i would need a programing cable like the one i have with the 160 edge. only because i am experimenting with wider blades and dont want to burn out the esc or motor
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:14 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toadiscoil View Post
Yes there is a video from Kyle Stacy somewhere explaining this. But the ESC that comes with the Fireball is a Hobbywing 60A programmed on Gov Store mode. So in theory if you want to use the ESC governor you don't need anything. Just calibrate (RPM standardization) your ESC to your battery.

To do this have a fully charged battery. Turn on your radio and then engage Throttle Hold but keep your throttle stick at 50%. You need to be on a flight mode that has a throttle and pitch curves where mid-stick is 50% throttle and 0 pitch. Then connect your battery and wait for initialization. Then make sure you are on a safe place outdoors and disengage TH. I think the manual says 20 seconds but I run it for about a minute. Just let it lay there on the ground running at 0 pitch and 50% throttle. After that engage TH and go and disconnect your flight pack. The ESC has now been calibrated per the output of your battery permanently.

Now, the manual says that you have to change governor mode of the ESC back and forth and only the first time the ESC boots up after a change it will go into RPM standardization mode. However Kyle has indicated that the ESC will know your intentions if it detects it's spooling up at 50% throttle and remaining there. Regardless the changes between your battery and what is stored on the governor should be very small and probably only someone like Kyle would notice the difference.

But if you want to be picky, then yes you would need to buy the programming box. Connect to the ESC and boot up then change to another gov mode (ELF Gov, Heli, Airplane), disconnect to save the change (after saving the "soft" change via the prog box) and do it again to change to Gov Store. Then do your RPM standardization as described above. The box doesn't need to continue to be connected so remove it.

If you want to use the FBL governor, then you need to buy the prog box as a MUST. Because you need to DISABLE the Gov Store mode and put it on Airplane or Heli, that is any option other than ELF or Store to avoid having two conflicting governors. Then you need a servo extension wire because the RPM out cable is too short to reach the FBL. I think this is made on purpose to avoid people from connecting it and running into the conflicting governor scenario.

Kyle keeps saying he does not use the FBL gov and he has been flying NEO forever. He always uses the ESC gov and well, you know how well he flies and how much he stresses the system. Granted he has way more control than any of us mortals so he knows how to manage the collective but still he really knows his stuff and has not needed FBL gov to do what he does.

Finally if you end up going the FBL gov route you have to search around as you have to setup your gear ratio and motor poles accordingly. There is no pinion gear or two-stage transmission so the ratio is 1 but I don't have the motor pole count to configure your FBL gov. Remember the ESC outputs its raw RPM so it's up to the FBL to do the math to convert that to headspeed RPM so you need to input the proper parameters.

Nice thing about FBL gov is you get to know your actual head RPM and can use the feature (if available on your FBL) to log the flight RPM fluctuations to troubleshoot or optimize your gearing (of course not applicable on the Fireball).

Cheers!

To do this have a fully charged battery. Turn on your radio and then engage Throttle Hold but keep your throttle stick at 50%. You need to be on a flight mode that has a throttle and pitch curves where mid-stick is 50% throttle and 0 pitch. Then connect your battery and wait for initialization. Then make sure you are on a safe place outdoors and disengage TH. I think the manual says 20 seconds but I run it for about a minute. Just let it lay there on the ground running at 0 pitch and 50% throttle. After that engage TH and go and disconnect your flight pack. The ESC has now been calibrated per the output of your battery permanently.

there are no flight modes in a vbar radio with throtle as far as i know it its just bank 1 2 and 3 keep the throtle stick center and turn on motor
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Old 11-02-2019, 08:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Well, the "banks" are flight modes. Anytime you can switch banks with one switch and have different settings for every parameter changed in that bank then that is considered a separate "flight mode".
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