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360CFX Blade 360 CFX Helicopters Information and Help


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  • 1 Post By The_Fox
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Old 11-02-2019, 07:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Help - Severe tail wag on a new build

I am having a problem with bad tail wag on a total new build. I will start with the build.

The airframe is a 360CFX
Motor is Blade 360 KV 1800
Main gear is new.
Main shaft is new
Microheli swash new
All new head
Rotorstar 360 main blades new.
Tail case is new microheli.
Zeal rotor blades new.
Servos are all Turnigy DMC 809
IKON 2 BT
Talon 35 speed controller
Spektrum SPM4649T RX
Drive belt is new.

So this build is not stock Blade 360 equipment. I have tried adjusting tail gain from midrange all the way down to the current setting of 16. The wag seems to be only slightly better now but it is not flyable at all. Midpoints were set and confirmed on all servos prior to taking to field. Swash was leveled and pitch set during the normal build procedures. I believe this also has a lynx tailboom and not factory- there is no horizontal fin. I have had the assistance of an expierenced heli pilot and builder during the entire build. Right now we are at a loss in determining where this wag is coming from.
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Old 11-03-2019, 01:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
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As You mention the 1800kV motor and Talon 35 ESC, i guess this is about a 360cfx 6S. Right?
The FBL is Stock, AR7200BX?

I have two of the 6S 360cfx. (and i love them!).
I had a tail issue once, caused by wornout bearings of main shaft. Replaced bearings and main shaft, but tail wag was persisting. After cross- changing allmoust everything with the other 360cfx, i realized that the brandnew main shaft was bent. So i learned, using a brandnew spare part does not mean to solve the problem.

I would recommend to check main blade balance first. After that, check pitch slider and tail blade holder bearings. Tail has to move smooth.
For tail gain setup, the pots of AR7200 should be set at 50%. In Tx the Setting at 50 was a good value to start with, i had no tail wag with. I like the microhel tail, works fine!
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Old 11-03-2019, 07:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The_Fox,
The 360 is set up in a 6S configuration. The FBL is not stock, I put a new IKON2 BT in it. I will check main blade balance and check pitch slider. The tail bearings are new with the microheli case. There is a very small amount of movement of the tail blades in the holders (not sure if this is normal). I have tried the tail gain completely off (with switch) and tested gain amounts from 55% to current setting of 16%.
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Old 11-04-2019, 10:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caddis68 View Post
There is a very small amount of movement of the tail blades in the holders (not sure if this is normal).

The blades move in the blade grips or the entire assembly moves due to slop? I have no experience with the micro-heli tail but the stock 3s tail pitch arms and slider and so on certainly has slop due to the entire thing being made of plastic.

I could never get rid of tail wag in my stock 360cfx 3s and just gave up as it flys ok - just looks dumb doing it.
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Old 11-04-2019, 10:36 AM   #5 (permalink)
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In the software...check Panel 9 (Tail Setup)

At the bottom there is a checkbox - Is Set In Software - Is that box checked?

If so - uncheck it

Are You controlling the gain thru the Gyro Menu with a switch mapped to CH5 in Your TX? (Gear channel)

You can test this by going to Panel 6...change the gain and watch to see if the Tail Gain number changes

Is the Gain Box red or green? You need to keep it in the green range

Play in the tail grips in something that should be addressed

Is the motor RPM in line with the stock setup?

If not...You may need to change tail blade length


Note that a 6S 1800kV motor is capable of up to 70+ amp draw...the Talon35 might be in need of some help
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Old 11-13-2019, 11:16 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I've had a tail wag in my Blade 360 from the time it was new out of the box.

I recently picked up a used Blade 450, and noticed it has identical tail rotor parts. In comparing the two, I noticed this old Blade 450 had significantly less slop in the tail pitch mechanics! On closer examination, it became apparent that the little brass threaded bushing wasn't turned in far enough on the 360 - problem solved! There still is a slight tail wag, but much more acceptable than before.
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Old 11-13-2019, 01:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Low_Cal View Post
I've had a tail wag in my Blade 360 from the time it was new out of the box.

I recently picked up a used Blade 450, and noticed it has identical tail rotor parts. In comparing the two, I noticed this old Blade 450 had significantly less slop in the tail pitch mechanics! On closer examination, it became apparent that the little brass threaded bushing wasn't turned in far enough on the 360 - problem solved! There still is a slight tail wag, but much more acceptable than before.

Can you post a picture of the bushing in question? I too have slop in the tail and tail wag.
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Old 11-13-2019, 02:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
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For Blade 360cfx 3S, i agree. Lots of People complain about Tail wag, and the AR636 FBL seems to do fine only with direct driven Tail.
The 6S Blade 360cfx comes with AR7200 FBL (Trio comes with AR7210BX).
Tail wag is unusual for this modell. Here`s a Vid showing the 6S-360cfx with Onboard-cam, and i was trying different Heads (Two-blade and 3-blade) at different headspeeds to find a Motorspeed according to the cameras shutter frequence. No Tail wag, even with different headspeeds and different Heads. When set up right and no mecanical damage, it works just fine. My other 6S-360cfx is a scale Build, at 1525g. No Tail wag, even at this Weight.
Blade 360 cfx Onboard Cam Mobius Mini (3 min 49 sec)
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Old 11-13-2019, 02:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Do you have slop in the tail pitch parts in your 6s 360, The_Fox?
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Old 11-13-2019, 02:30 PM   #10 (permalink)
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No wag on my original 360CFX 6S. The AR7200 has been replaced with a Spirit FBL. I have AL tail parts sitting not used as the plastic tail stuff has been just fine so far.
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Old 11-13-2019, 03:58 PM   #11 (permalink)
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If you are using the same servo on the tail as your cyclic it might be too slow. From what i read it says .07sec. Most of my tail servos are .04 or faster. It might be struggling to keep up. The stock 360 trio servo is .03sec.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:45 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddle View Post
Can you post a picture of the bushing in question? I too have slop in the tail and tail wag.
This isn't the best picture, but you can see a little of the bushing where the arrow on the left points to. The place where you use a wrench to tighten it is actually on the other side, where the right arrow points. I don't think you want it super tight, but if its too loose, you have play in the slider.
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Low_Cal View Post
This isn't the best picture, but you can see a little of the bushing where the arrow on the left points to. The place where you use a wrench to tighten it is actually on the other side, where the right arrow points. I don't think you want it super tight, but if its too loose, you have play in the slider.

Is it the visible screw on top in the picture that the arrow is point to or another unseen screw on the complete opposite side close to the shaft?
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddle View Post
Is it the visible screw on top in the picture that the arrow is point to or another unseen screw on the complete opposite side close to the shaft?
The latter. Look at the first pic in the post by The Fox above, you can see it clearly there. Its the brass bushing with a couple flats you can put a wrench on.
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:22 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Here
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Low_Cal View Post
Here

Thanks! I just replaced that whole part (its all one piece already assembled) after a small crash. The tail wag got MUCH worse after that ... there was only a small amount of tail wag before. Thats when I noticed the slop (couldn't swear it wasn't there before). I'll have a look at this soon!
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Old 11-15-2019, 02:39 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Do you have slop in the tail pitch parts in your 6s 360, The_Fox?
I had slop in the original plastic blade grips when i got the Heli first. I replaced, but after short time i had again. Plastiks is worn out, bearings are mooving in plastiks. (no Tail wag, though!)
I replaced the Blade Grips with Blade 450 AL Blade Grips. Everything from Blade 450 Tail fits the 360cfx. Since i use AL Blade Grips, no Slop at all.
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The Second 360cfx (Scale Build Schweizer 300C) AL Blade Grips from Microheli are mounted. But the Bearings in them Microheli Blade Grips are crappy, Huge Tail wag when i mounted them. I coud not refuse to the Microheli AL Blade Grips, because i wanted them in red Color, to meet the original Machine. I complained, Microheli sent new Blade Grips, crappy Bearings in aswell. So I changed Bearings, and everything is fine. No Slop, no wag.
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Old 11-15-2019, 08:57 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Thanks The_Fox ... gives me something to look at ... right now I'm building an Oxy 4 Max ... once thats complete, and my work area cleared, i'll circle back to the 360cfx and use your pointers to hopefully at least cut down on the tail wag (not sure its possible to completely get rid of it without replace FBL and servo ... so people say).
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