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Blade 450 Blade 450 Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 11-08-2019, 02:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Blade 450 3D Flybarless?

A friend is passing his old 450 3D to me. Would this be worth converting to FBL? Anybody done it already and have comments?
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Old 11-08-2019, 02:30 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I have one I bought here used that was converted. You can put a Tarot DFC head assy on it quite easy.



This one here is $43.52 shipped on Amazon. I'm sure you can find it elsewhere and in other colors. With the models HH is still producing parts shouldn't be an issue for it.
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Old 11-08-2019, 03:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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To convert to FBL You would also need a FBL unit

~$130-$200 depending on the make/model You choose
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Old 11-08-2019, 03:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeDad View Post
I have one I bought here used that was converted. You can put a Tarot DFC head assy on it quite easy.



This one here is $43.52 shipped on Amazon. I'm sure you can find it elsewhere and in other colors. With the models HH is still producing parts shouldn't be an issue for it.
Oh nice! I think I'll fly it the way it is (in stock config) a couple times to see how much I like it, then maybe get this.
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Old 11-08-2019, 03:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJet View Post
To convert to FBL You would also need a FBL unit

~$130-$200 depending on the make/model You choose
Oh I know, probably put a Spirit on it.
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Old 11-11-2019, 12:02 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Yes good decisions. I have a converted 400 and 450, and after trying to master the AR7200 purchased spirit. I can nearly fly them Ok
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:15 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Older threads had listed other (older) Tarot (FBL with follower arms, not DFC) heads.

If you ask me: Those $45 for that DFC head are too much for the Blade 4503D alone (yes I know, all flybar parts have been discontinued by HorizonHobby) alone.

AFAIU DFC heads are not too nice to the cyclic servos, is that true?
The E-Flite DS76 cyclics still live in my 4503D...but on every crash the two roll (ail+pit) plastic gears do not hold up well and you can replace them for cheap; funnily the plastic servo chassis is way better than of H3050/H3060 (I own a H3060 tail servo but the DS76T is just fine).
The DS76 servos are not truly ready for that DFC head...but this is only my personal opinion.
Newer helis (besides Align Dominator series) do not really use DFC heads anymore?!?


I heard that other FBL heads (push rods) use a different ball size so they do not directly fit the standard Blade 4503D/x swashplate.


Maybe you find someone who sells a 450X V1/V2 or 330X head (especially the aluminium top head for all the other fitting FBL stuff like spindles, follower arms, main shaft, etc.) for cheap?!?

My friend had some fun with his 450X (V1 has the same DS76 cyclic servos + DS76T tail and managed to find the official aluminium tuning upgrade set a few years ago.


Have you seen my other thread "Are there any really cheap 450/360-380 heli build kits (flybar or FBL) available"? https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=847037


I have plans to put at least a Tarot ZYX as a tail gyro (I have it already here) on my Blade 4503D as I did not like the E-flite G210 gyro that much (quite often very weird behaviour in setup/maiden flights, sometimes tail goes right, then suddenly left, sometimes a slight drift which I could use trim for (well, you shouldn't), then all of the sudden everything is OK).
And how the heck do you want to get the servoarm 90 degree to the pushrod when you should not be using subtrim in the transmitter for the RUD channel?!?


I had made sure that the Align main blades are balanced and I for sure do not use the wodden blades anymore (Align 325mm main blades for $20 are just fine).

But first I need to find some time in the following months to completely repair it (I have a few flybar parts here; also found a RC heli shop from Poland which sells heavily reduced 4503D flybar parts like aluminium follower arms) and see if it works out for good.

Make sure that you use an adjustable pushrod connector from swash to the flybar cage (not the default fixed one) and watch out for several mechanical bindings (mainshaft, blade holders,...) with that 4503D flybar head / components!!

I think it is a good idea to fly your 4503D as a paddle / flybar heli just as it is....and maybe see if you can work out that G210 tail gyro :-)

Honestly, my maiden flights had been nerve wrecking with not too many options left (like correct belt strength; do not tigthen it too strong!).

At least you are allowed to use nick+roll trims on a paddle heli on your transmitter for the last fine tuning when you are in the air and your swashplate is level appropriately on ground.

Be careful with the 4503D tending to want to go upright (nick goes up) in or after a curve; I believe I had to use front nick trim to compensate that.
I had one bad crash because it behaved differently than I was expecting on my first maiden flight in 2015 when someone else was talking behind me to a friend (very bad idea to fly when you are not alone / it is 100% quiet!).


I really took my time in 2015 the 2d time with that mechanical setup and electronic programming (for the three cyclic servos: subtrim + min/max pitch position; different CCPM 120 mixer settings than in the manual using a real pitch gauge).

Have fun with your new heli.
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Last edited by Thomas.Heiss; 11-13-2019 at 04:37 AM..
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:42 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Here is an old pic of the 450 3D I bought that was converted to FBL with the Tarot head. It's still using a micro Ikon V1 I had sitting around:

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Old 11-11-2019, 10:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
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It may not be a popular choice...but I'd spend the money using Blade 450X parts for the conversion

The DFC head from Tarot may bring some issues with it as Thomas pointed out

I could probably do a conversion from the NIP spare parts I already have
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Last edited by JonJet; 11-11-2019 at 10:33 AM..
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Old 11-11-2019, 10:27 AM   #10 (permalink)
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The servos in mine have been upgraded to MG ones and it's running a larger Futaba S9257 tail servo. It initially came with an old 3G installed. For the $125 with same spare parts it wasn't a bad deal a few years ago. All I've changed is the FBL.
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Old 11-13-2019, 12:18 AM   #11 (permalink)
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It cant be that much more to get the 330x/s head on it. I would personally go that route.
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Old 11-13-2019, 12:29 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Flybarless Head Block - 27.99
Main rotor grip set - 7.99
Flybarless linkage set - 4.99
Follower arms - 17.99
Flybarless main shaft - 9.99

Total - 68.95 easy peasy
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Old 11-13-2019, 02:29 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyComi View Post
Flybarless Head Block - 27.99
Main rotor grip set - 7.99
Flybarless linkage set - 4.99
Follower arms - 17.99
Flybarless main shaft - 9.99

Total - 68.95 easy peasy
A search on eBay will save a few dollars on the above prices if You use the right supplier...

Making the OEM conversion parts very similar in price to the Tarot example given previously

If You would rather go the aluminum upgraded route...it's still about a C-note total price for genuine 450X parts


Note: If the 4503D still has the original blades...FBL blades are also a must-have
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Last edited by JonJet; 11-13-2019 at 02:50 AM..
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:40 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyComi View Post
easy peasy
Don't forget: For a FBL conversion you also need to add:

- BLH4321 flybarless feathering spindle set: $4,99 / 5,99EUR
- BLH1608 dampeners 80 (4503D has BLH1602 70 dampeners): $4,99 / 6,99EUR

BLH1620 trust bearings (nr 14 / nr 26) and BLH1605 bearing 4x8x3 main grip (nr 5 / nr 20) are probably the same for both helis as they are listed on the 330x replacement parts page.
BLH4321 spindle should include the outer disc (before the screw nr 12)?!
First part number is from the 4503D (flybar) manual, second number from the 450X/330x FBL manual.


The flybar main shaft AND feathering shafts have been discontinued by HH for the 4503D anyway :-(


Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyComi View Post
Flybarless Head Block - 27.99 (reduced from $34,99)
Follower arms - 17.99
I agree, the highest cost from the FBL conversion will come from the aluminium head block.
HorizonHobby Germany even lists the block for EUR 30.99 (USP), but it is not of plastic.

My LHS wants 18,99EUR for the flybarless follower arms.

Same holds true for (2) BLH4347 follower main shafts: 23,99EUR even HH.com has officially reduced the USP to $9,99 on their website.

The 4503D non-alu flybar follower arms are even listed as 23,99EUR in the shop.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyComi View Post
Total - $68.95
Makes a total of (at least) $78,93 if we (hopefully) have not forgot more single head parts or are some of those additional parts included in other parts?


But remember: With that 450x/330x FBL head conversion price it will be:

- the same (crappy) plastic frame/chassis (front left landing leg mount easily brakes off)
- old E-flite ESC which does not contain a governor (if you have not changed already)
- and you might have to swap the E-flite motor very soon: The H420 (4503D) / H440 motors from the 450x V1 BNF helis really have so bad bearings!


I can clearly see that Blade replacement parts have become a money pit (for me) with the HH requirement of dealer using the 1:1 USP (since their restructering here in Germany) and the steady price increases for discontinued Blade helis since 2012 -> 2015/2016 -> 2018/2019.


----------------------

Let's do some comparison to the X360 (full kit combo including 2525 6s (1800kv) motor and 50A ESC), as pointed out here: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...33#post7914533

$170 combo - additional 15% discount $25,50 = $144,50 USD
$144,50 - $39 motor - $46 ESC = ~$60 ($59,89 to be precise).

For the 60A ESC you have to pay a bit more ($60) and I currently do not see a combo - with that 15% discount - listed on a dealer page (obviously there is one on the ALZRC vendor homepage).

However, that price of around $60 is a full heli kit including a brand new canopy ($20); my 4503D canopy suffered from the last crash.

According to the manufacturer the X360 (black) top head is also made of (6061-T6 alloy) aluminium; I almost confused it on the pictures for plastic because of the black colour

---------------------------------


I really liked my 4503D (silver alu top head, plastic black main holder) with the silver aluminium flybar seesaw holder

And to say something positive about the 4503d/450x/330x:

The (plastic) tail simply works. I had no problems.
It even resisted two crashes (on a green field) well...only the last (3rd) crash from a warehouse roof onto the hard concrete ground required to change tail parts.

I guess you really should not be flying in the dark.
But it was a good opportunity as our bakery had exterior lights on and I finally wanted to push forward and check blade tracking and also wanted to do a bit of hovering to adjust the tail which had progressed to slowly flying curves which suddenly made so much fun that I simply could not stop anymore; not really my fault that it was 22:00pm-01:00am in the night, am I right
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Old 11-15-2019, 02:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Many thanks to all! You have truly presented a wealth of information on this mater! Yeah I figured the flybarless head would require more robust servos.

I've flown this thing a few times now and got my radio setup dialed in, and it is surprisingly stable. Its lightweight and does well on a little 2100mah 3s. Didn't try any 3d stuff though.

So I think maybe I'll just leave it all factory stock and enjoy it for what it is, saving my time and money for a Trex 500, 600 or the like. Only thing it really needs are some better blades; the woodies don't look like they are balanced or tracking that well, and the plastic sheath is blowing off them with each flight.
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Old 11-15-2019, 03:17 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Low_Cal View Post
Only thing it really needs are some better blades; the woodies don't look like they are balanced or tracking that well, and the plastic sheath is blowing off them with each flight.
You really need to remedy that post haste...

A flying blade at that head speed can do serious damage to body/property if it lets go
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Old 11-15-2019, 04:03 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Put some cheap fiberglass blades on it at least. They are only a few dollars a pair. No need really for expensive CF ones. I have a bunch of them in 325 mm size. It was easy to match up balanced pairs.
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