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Goblin 280 SAB Heli Division - Goblin 280 Helicopters


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Old 01-03-2020, 06:10 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonys-heli View Post
most of my stuff is converted to tribunus, vcontrol, so hobbywing is old hat for me..

glad its working, just trying to help ya..

Oh for sure, I'm always up for getting help. I think the very few flights I'll put on it over the winter will be ok. Once spring hits (outdoor flying) I will prolly switch it over.
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:03 AM   #42 (permalink)
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In theory, you don't need the prog box if you buy a Fireball with the SAB electronics. The ESC should be set to Gov Store and already standardized. Yes, the RPM is not standardized to your packs but it shouldn't be that much of a difference. So in theory even if you don't perform this step your stock SAB electronics Fireball should work fine with ESC gov.

Now, to me, the $30 or so program box is a must for any HW user, but yes that is not mentioned anywhere probably not even on the HW product when you buy it new to be honest.

I plan to migrate to NEO as budget allows (will take a while LOL) and I have heard the tales of the tail kick and I think I will end up using the ESC gov. Hopefully I can still plug in the RPM lead and log the RPM.

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Originally Posted by blarks View Post
So SAB states somewhere that you need the HW program box when you buy a fireball/mini comet?
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:21 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Kyles 280 didn’t have a kick.

With any hobbywing, you should have the program box.. if anything, how would you change settings without it?
Also updates are done with it. It’s a must imo.

In reality the YGE-t is way easier to set up for vcontrol...
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:38 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Kyle Stacy doesn't use FBL gov as far as I know. He uses HW ESC gov on all of his helis to the best of my knowledge. So he would not have a tail kick indeed.

I do agree the box is a must for any HW user but the point from blarks was why it wasn't pointed out if it was needed. My point is for the Fireball with stock electronics it's not really needed. Yes should be purchased eventually for changing settings but is not needed to fly it because SAB worked with HW to have it configured from factory to the stock electronics. Since you can't install another motor and since the ESC gov is already enabled, you really don't need to change anything to it.

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Originally Posted by tonys-heli View Post
Kyles 280 didn’t have a kick.

With any hobbywing, you should have the program box.. if anything, how would you change settings without it?
Also updates are done with it. It’s a must imo.

In reality the YGE-t is way easier to set up for vcontrol...
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:56 AM   #45 (permalink)
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I used the box to change it to fbl gov. I like the neo gov better, but that’s me.
One things for sure, I can guarantee you Kyle does have the program box whether he chooses to use the ESC governor or not. I read he upped the P and i gains on the gov.. how did he do that without the box.
Even if you’re using the hobby wing governor how, would you make any changes TO the governor without the box.? You’re telling me everybody flies the same?
Without the box you can’t change any settings whatsoever... NONE
So it is needed
There is some kind of dongle thing that plugs into the PC but I’ve never used it.
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:58 AM   #46 (permalink)
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I think the kick you talking about is from the HW esc's not the fbl gov.
From this thread
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=763828
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:10 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I am not arguing against you. I have said I agree the prog box is a must. The point is just that for the Fireball specifically, it is designed to not need it, but fly right out of the box with stock electronics like that. That heli is designed to be entry-level and inexpensive. Yes, for any more tweaking you need the box for sure.

I haven't heard of any dongle though. What I know is that you plug in the prog box into the ESC and then via USB to the computer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonys-heli View Post
I used the box to change it to fbl gov. I like the neo gov better, but that’s me.
One things for sure, I can guarantee you Kyle does have the program box whether he chooses to use the ESC governor or not. I read he upped the P and i gains on the gov.. how did he do that without the box.
Even if you’re using the hobby wing governor how, would you make any changes TO the governor without the box.? You’re telling me everybody flies the same?
Without the box you can’t change any settings whatsoever... NONE
So it is needed
There is some kind of dongle thing that plugs into the PC but I’ve never used it.
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:10 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonys-heli View Post
I used the box to change it to fbl gov. I like the neo gov better, but that’s me.
One things for sure, I can guarantee you Kyle does have the program box whether he chooses to use the ESC governor or not. I read he upped the P and i gains on the gov.. how did he do that without the box.
Even if you’re using the hobby wing governor how, would you make any changes TO the governor without the box.? You’re telling me everybody flies the same?
Without the box you can’t change any settings whatsoever... NONE
So it is needed
There is some kind of dongle thing that plugs into the PC but I’ve never used it.
I don't think Toad is implying that Kyle doesn't use the prog box but that it isn't completely necessary to get the fireball going. I do agree that yes at some point it is a valuable tool that should be had at some point. As far as updating, man I try to steer clear of that after reading horror stories about it. If it aint broke, don't fix it. Unless of course theres a major bug that could cause a safety issue.


edit - Lol seems Toad replied the exact same time I did. There is a dongle from hobbyking you can get, I have it and it works fine, but if you want to setup gov store its not much use or at least a hell of a lot easier with the box.
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:16 AM   #49 (permalink)
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OK we are all on the same page.. you don’t need it to get it going but to make changes you do..
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Old 01-06-2020, 02:25 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by toadiscoil View Post
I am not arguing against you. I have said I agree the prog box is a must. The point is just that for the Fireball specifically, it is designed to not need it, but fly right out of the box with stock electronics like that. That heli is designed to be entry-level and inexpensive. Yes, for any more tweaking you need the box for sure.

I haven't heard of any dongle though. What I know is that you plug in the prog box into the ESC and then via USB to the computer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonys-heli View Post
I used the box to change it to fbl gov. I like the neo gov better, but that’s me.
One things for sure, I can guarantee you Kyle does have the program box whether he chooses to use the ESC governor or not. I read he upped the P and i gains on the gov.. how did he do that without the box.
Even if you’re using the hobby wing governor how, would you make any changes TO the governor without the box.? You’re telling me everybody flies the same?
Without the box you can’t change any settings whatsoever... NONE
So it is needed
There is some kind of dongle thing that plugs into the PC but I’ve never used it.
If you don’t do gov store, and endpoints properly during the initial setup of the Fireball SAB esc. You will need the prog box to fix the errors. Been there done that. There’s a FB video on how to setup correctly, but other info is very limited
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Old 01-06-2020, 02:48 PM   #51 (permalink)
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I believe that video is from Kyle Stacy showing how to setup the RPM standardization of Gov Store without the prog box. The manual says it has to be manually put out of Gov Store then back because it goes into "learning" mode only when Gov Store is enabled on first power-up. But Kyle demonstrated that the HW ESC is smart enough to re-learn even without that.

The endpoints can be configured also without the box just starting full throttle to learn max endpoint and then 0 throttle (a 0-100 throttle curve so stick full up then full down after the beeps). The only caveat I think is you have to make sure the FBL powers up first because if the throttle signal is not received in a few seconds, the ESC won't accept endpoint learning anymore.

I have never validated if indeed you cannot set up the RPM standardization unless you go out and in of Gov Store mode if it actually makes any difference. I have been using FBL gov for a while now and probably back when I was using ESC gov I couldn't have noticed the difference anyway. But as I said Kyle made it work without the prog box.

EDIT: Here is the video from Kyle. No prog box, VBAR, stock electronics.

https://www.facebook.com/TheBKOffici...2472412861851/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravmano7 View Post
If you don’t do gov store, and endpoints properly during the initial setup of the Fireball SAB esc. You will need the prog box to fix the errors. Been there done that. There’s a FB video on how to setup correctly, but other info is very limited
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Old 01-06-2020, 03:07 PM   #52 (permalink)
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cant properly do endpoints in gov store.. unless its a ikon2 fbl.. you can manually enter the high and low numbers. and I wouldn't trust it to work 100% correct unless its set in heli gov off or heli linear.
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Old 01-06-2020, 03:08 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by toadiscoil View Post
I believe that video is from Kyle Stacy showing how to setup the RPM standardization of Gov Store without the prog box. The manual says it has to be manually put out of Gov Store then back because it goes into "learning" mode only when Gov Store is enabled on first power-up. But Kyle demonstrated that the HW ESC is smart enough to re-learn even without that.

The endpoints can be configured also without the box just starting full throttle to learn max endpoint and then 0 throttle (a 0-100 throttle curve so stick full up then full down after the beeps). The only caveat I think is you have to make sure the FBL powers up first because if the throttle signal is not received in a few seconds, the ESC won't accept endpoint learning anymore.

I have never validated if indeed you cannot set up the RPM standardization unless you go out and in of Gov Store mode if it actually makes any difference. I have been using FBL gov for a while now and probably back when I was using ESC gov I couldn't have noticed the difference anyway. But as I said Kyle made it work without the prog box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravmano7 View Post
If you don’t do gov store, and endpoints properly during the initial setup of the Fireball SAB esc. You will need the prog box to fix the errors. Been there done that. There’s a FB video on how to setup correctly, but other info is very limited
Kyle set it up with his Vcontrol, and never mentions that it can be done repeatedly. I set it up with spektrum, and had to redo it with the prog box. I’m talking from real life experience lol. Have you owned a fireball, because I have. Anyways here’s Kyles vid.

https://www.facebook.com/TheBKOffici...2472412861851/
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Old 01-06-2020, 03:21 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Tonys correct about Ikon2, and setting end points. All Hobbywing’s are the same 1100 to 1940us I believe. Point is, it’s not always as easy as plug and play. Depending on your setup
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Old 01-06-2020, 03:32 PM   #55 (permalink)
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I do agree I have not owned a Fireball. But the info was relevant talking about setting it up with NEO. I did also find the video and posted it as an edit though

I set it up originally on Spektrum with my first Goblin, a 380 way back when. I had to power the AR7200BX with a spare 200SRX ESC and a 3S pack for that ESC which gave proper BEC voltage. I cut the throttle signal wire from the 3S-powered ESC just to have BEC power and fired up the FBL then plugged in the main pack to be able to setup endpoints. I think I was visiting a friend one time and didn't have that spare ESC with me and we ended up using a BEC we found and I used the wires directly into the battery LOL. Pretty wild stuff I did back in the day trying to learn and get these things going.

Then for the ESC gov store I always followed the manual advice as I was unaware it seems to work also without the prog box. Now, Kyle did not mention it can be done repeatedly, however he setup the endpoints first and didn't change the ESC mode. The manual says that only on first power up after changing to ESC mode from another mode it goes into "learning" mode. I also believe that was not the first time he was flying that particular Fireball and re-calibrated everything just for the video.

But as I said I really haven't tried to see if it makes any difference to calibrate over and over again without the box, it's been a while since I have been using FBL gov and of course, my experience is with other helis with different FBL units on an actual Hobbywing and not the SAB HW ESC on a Fireball.

So I may be mistaken or I may not be. Just talking from what I have been able to research and from my limited experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravmano7 View Post
Kyle set it up with his Vcontrol, and never mentions that it can be done repeatedly. I set it up with spektrum, and had to redo it with the prog box. I’m talking from real life experience lol. Have you owned a fireball, because I have. Anyways here’s Kyles vid.

https://www.facebook.com/TheBKOffici...2472412861851/
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Old 01-06-2020, 05:37 PM   #56 (permalink)
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not to be rude, but im speaking from experience.

in the vids, there was stuff going on before they hit rec. it involves a prog box. what if the bec is set for 8.2 and you have 6v servos?

i'll leave it there.
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:07 PM   #57 (permalink)
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not to be rude, but im speaking from experience.

in the vids, there was stuff going on before they hit rec. it involves a prog box. what if the bec is set for 8.2 and you have 6v servos?

i'll leave it there.


We had already made that point clear. Stock electronics on the Fireball need no box. Any tweaks or different electronics/heli definitely need the box.

The point now was if the gov store can be done over and over without the box. That is, without changing the governor mode just re-entering calibration.

Don’t get me wrong I am all for the box. On this hobby $30 is dirt cheap for such a needed tool. Just trying to drill down on specific points.


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Old 01-09-2020, 02:38 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonys-heli View Post
not to be rude, but im speaking from experience.

in the vids, there was stuff going on before they hit rec. it involves a prog box. what if the bec is set for 8.2 and you have 6v servos?

i'll leave it there. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.helifreak.com/images/smilies/cheers.gif[/IMG]


We had already made that point clear. Stock electronics on the Fireball need no box. Any tweaks or different electronics/heli definitely need the box.

The point now was if the gov store can be done over and over without the box. That is, without changing the governor mode just re-entering calibration.

Don’t get me wrong I am all for the box. On this hobby $30 is dirt cheap for such a needed tool. Just trying to drill down on specific points.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
According to Hobbywing. You can only do gov store once. If it needs to be repeated. You must place the esc to gov elf, then back to gov store to repeat the standardization process. You need a program box.

From Hobbywing,


About RPM Standardization & Others
• The motor will enter the soft start-up when user switches the throttle amount from 0 to 40% or above (50% throttle is recommended). The pitch of main blades should be 0 degree during the soft start-up process, the RPM standardization completes when the soft start-up ends, and the ESC makes the motor enter the speed-governing state. In “Helicopter (Store Governor)” mode, if user wants to re-standardize the speed, he needs to set the flight mode to “Helicopter (Elf Governor)” and save this mode first, and then reset the flight mode back to “Helicopter (Store Governor)”, then the ESC will re-standardize the motor speed when the motor rotates for the first time after the ESC is powered off and then on again
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Old 01-09-2020, 03:28 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I fully agree. That's what the manual states. But seems at least from the evidence from Kyle's video, that it can be done without the box.

I really don't have any real evidence of testing this process with and without the box. If the gov store is done, I really can't tell if there will be a difference if it is re-done or if it is attempted to be re-done, but discarded. If I did this test myself, I am pretty sure I could not notice the difference between say using two different mAh batteries and not redoing the standardization. I am sure all I would notice is the change in flight time.

To me Kyle's pilot abilities allow him to be able to really tell this difference, which is why I would trust that if he states it can be done without the box, that indeed that is true. He is a SAB and Hobbywing pilot so I don't see a reason for him to steer people in the wrong direction.

Maybe, and this is just speculation on my end, if you do throttle endpoints, the RPM standardization is reset and thus it allows you to do it even without the box?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravmano7 View Post
According to Hobbywing. You can only do gov store once. If it needs to be repeated. You must place the esc to gov elf, then back to gov store to repeat the standardization process. You need a program box.

From Hobbywing,


About RPM Standardization & Others
• The motor will enter the soft start-up when user switches the throttle amount from 0 to 40% or above (50% throttle is recommended). The pitch of main blades should be 0 degree during the soft start-up process, the RPM standardization completes when the soft start-up ends, and the ESC makes the motor enter the speed-governing state. In “Helicopter (Store Governor)” mode, if user wants to re-standardize the speed, he needs to set the flight mode to “Helicopter (Elf Governor)” and save this mode first, and then reset the flight mode back to “Helicopter (Store Governor)”, then the ESC will re-standardize the motor speed when the motor rotates for the first time after the ESC is powered off and then on again
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Old 01-09-2020, 04:00 PM   #60 (permalink)
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please just admit that kyles vid doesn't show all the details.
speculation, theorys, I don't know, maybe, doesn't hold water.
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