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Old 10-15-2019, 08:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Can somone check my work?

I need someone who actually knows what they are doing to check this in case I have made some horrible mistake that will cause property damage or the helicopter to spool up by itself or something.

I'm sick of FrOs being a buggy unsafe mess, found a bug in the throttle curve settings and that was enough for me.

So I made this to see if I can use Open TX. I don't actually have my radio running Open TX yet so the switch assignments and directions are probably wrong, but the functions are there for bank switch, flight mode and throttle hold.

SA is flight mode
SE is parameter bank (channel 7 not 5 this is intentional I don't like what the iKON does with channel 5)
SF is throttle hold

Expo is global for all flight modes.
Throttle hold cuts the throttle, however it does not change flight modes so the pitch curve does not change when throttle hold is enabled.

Before anyone asks, yes I like having a "normal" mode.

Should I just disable global variables or does that need to be on?

Any other saftey issues I should be aware of?


(Rename attached file to .otx)
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File Type: txt testheli.txt (867 Bytes, 25 views)
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:41 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Couple of comments:
1 - I find it easier to apply expo in the inputs tab. What you did with curves will work however.
2 - You don't need to tie switches to the inputs tab. you can use them directly on inputs. Again, it will work the way you did it, just a bit simpler the other way.
3 - You can use the simulator to make sure that the outputs match what you do on the sticks and switches. Highly recommended to play with it as much as possible.
4 - Don't forget to setup your failsafe mode. You don't have it setup yet.
5 - If you add names to the outputs tab they will appear in the mixes tab. I find that good for easy reference.
6 - I set a logic switch that goes positive as soon as I go above -95 throttle. This stops the timer if you're in throttle hold.

Nothing wrong that I can see except #4 is very important, just some places that thought you might want to see something that you may not have known about.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
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What is the difference between e.g. !CV and CV curves an why would you use one over the other?

How can I make a throttle hold flight mode that overrides all other flight mode switches?

Is there any way to graphically display the expo curves on the inputs in Companion 9x?

Should I disable global variables in this model?

Last edited by Atomic Skull; 10-15-2019 at 10:20 PM..
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
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!CV means "not CV" and is the boolean of CV. I suspect you're referring to a curve, and I am not sure why you would use the boolean of a curve function. Maybe some logical switch that says "When not CV, then CX" or something...?

A throttle hold mode that over rides all other modes...hmm. Well, keep in mind that OTx reads logical switches and mixes and such in a top down manner. So, set your throttle hold override to which ever switch you like, set it to "Replace" and make sure it's at the top of the mix list. That way it will read throttle hold and if true, not go further. If throttle hold isn't true, it will proceed to the next mix for the throttle channel.

I don't know how to display expo effects in companion. I have looked myself and haven't found it. One thing though, be aware that most flight controllers (if you have a flybarless unit) have their own expo and it's usually best to set expo in the controller or the transmitter, but not both.

As for disabling global variables, you can if you want. They aren't 100% necessary, but, once you figure them out, are really handy. They also tie directly into flight modes, so you can set things using flight modes. I use them to set expo and dual rates with each flight mode on my planks. I use them for gyro settings per head speed for helis. It wouldn't be entirely impossible to set the throttle by flight mode so one is hold, one is low rpm, one medium, and one high. Like I said, once you understand them (and don't get me wrong, there is a learning curve there) they are very handy.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:52 AM   #5 (permalink)
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!CV inverts the curve. Unfortunately, there isn't a product manager for OpenTX and it's created by engineers, so you will get a few features that are in there just because they can be. Even though ! typically means "not" in some cases in OpenTX it means invert.

I'd encourage you to play with companion and the simulator. You can verify everything that you need to in that. When I was first learning it, I'd make changes just to see what they did to my outputs. You can ensure that no matter what flight mode you are in that TH overrides the throttle output. I also would look a the channel outputs on my radio and use different switches just to triple check my work. (Without a heli being turned powered up)

If you have not been to OpenTX University | A Brave New World it's worth poking around in. Not always the clearest but a good help. There are also a few really good tutorials on HF in this forum to help get you a better understanding. The biggest challenge is that there are generally 2-4 ways to do the same thing. For example, I've never used flight modes. I know that they are very handy, but I can get everything done that I need to with mixes and logical switches. To each his own.
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Old 10-16-2019, 01:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default OTX Primer

OTX in a nutshell can be boiled down to this...

INPUTS > MIXERS > OUTPUTS

I highly recommend the following OTX primer...OpenTx Clinic - Key Concepts

Written by a sailplane guy, (Mike Shellim), this very clearly explains the basics and a methodology needed to build precise, accurate and useful model setups. If you can thoroughly grok this, you're well on your way.

Hope this helps.
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Old 10-16-2019, 04:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan View Post
One thing though, be aware that most flight controllers (if you have a flybarless unit) have their own expo and it's usually best to set expo in the controller or the transmitter, but not both.

Normally I would use expo on the FBL however I discovered that expo on the iKON changes the channel limits slightly when you change the expo so for that specific unit I switched to using expo on the radio.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JWeber View Post
!CV inverts the curve. Unfortunately, there isn't a product manager for OpenTX and it's created by engineers, so you will get a few features that are in there just because they can be. Even though ! typically means "not" in some cases in OpenTX it means invert.

For whatever reason the multirotor wizard creates a setup that uses !CV instead of CV on the channels. I was wondering if there was a solid reason for this, it seems weird if !CV inverts the curve and that's the default for setups created by the wizard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ridge-runner View Post
I highly recommend the following OTX primer...OpenTx Clinic - Key Concepts

Written by a sailplane guy, (Mike Shellim), this very clearly explains the basics and a methodology needed to build precise, accurate and useful model setups. If you can thoroughly grok this, you're well on your way.

Hope this helps.

I tried reading that and gave up after 10 minutes. I know absolutely zero about planes so it just confused me.
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Old 10-17-2019, 05:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
I need someone who actually knows what they are doing to check this in case I have made some horrible mistake that will cause property damage or the helicopter to spool up by itself or something.
Just take main blades and tail blades off before your initial power-on and initial spool up. Check cyclic and rudder and collective controls. All the usual jazz. Shouldn't be any property damage that way if it does spool up on its own.
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:59 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic Skull View Post
How can I make a throttle hold flight mode that overrides all other flight mode switches?
As JWeber says there are normally 3 -4 ways (at least) of doing any one process, I found this very confusing and frustrating for a newbie to OTX.

What I did was to take a simple approach and set-up my QX7 up so that it worked very similarly to my Spektrum DX7 (as this is what I am used to).

So I have set my Tx up with 3 Flight modes, each with different Headspeeds set by "curves" (all straight lines for HW Gov but could be a curve like Normal) plus a separate PC per flight mode and I have set up Throttle Hold with it's own TC and PC - which overrides other flight modes. I don't currently have Expo set per Flight Mode (just globally), but that would be easy to implement.

Onto this I have now added speech and telemetry that my old Spektrum couldn't do. I have only used a fraction of the capability so far, but because I have started from a known starting point (i.e.how my DX7 worked) it has been a much easier transition.

I'm very happy to show how I've done this - but others will inevitably have done it differently and possibly "better", but it works well for me.
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Old 10-18-2019, 12:16 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Can somone check my work?

Atomic,

If you donít chose to use a global variables anywhere in your models then there is no harm just leaving them there. You donít have to disable.

What I did for throttle hold was use the actual Flight Mode page along with Logical Switches. I have a 3-pos switch for my flight mode, but it only enables my Logical Switches if my throttle hold 2-pos is also off. Thatís done using an AND in Logical Switches. Then, in my Flight Mode page, I set FM1 to be activated when my LS for flight mode 1 is true, and so on. If none of the logical switches are true, then OpenTX defaults to using the FM0 flight mode IIRC. So in FM0 I set a -100 throttle value.

There are easier ways, but I liked doing it that way.

Here is a link to how I set up my own system with pictures and explanations. Youíll like the Getting Grounded section. I think in this version I used an extra safety switch so that accidentally hitting my throttle hold accidentally didnít start the motor.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=835793

Last edited by xoexoe; 10-18-2019 at 12:29 AM..
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Old 10-18-2019, 02:20 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Ha ha - I was just about to make exactly the same comment in this thread that I made in the thread that you linked to - I'm obviously more predictable than I realised

Some great stuff there Brian, nice clear process. the only bit that I think would make it easier for some, is around the use of curves for Throttle (and Pitch) rather than GVs - let me explain with a few examples....

If I am doing the "Gov Store" learning with my Tx I need a curve something like 0, 90, 90, 90, 90 (YGE) or 0, 50, 50, 50, 50 for HW - this is very easy on the QX7 as I can either set it up as a separate curve that I store in the QX7, or what I normally do is just go into the Flight Mode 1 TC, select the relevant points and change them there - once I have set the Gov I can then just change the curve back - this is super easy in OTx as I just change it to a 2 point curve and set the levels (I think that I might even be able to set it to a "one point curve" where all points are the same). This is also great for a "Normal" curve - not that I ever use one.

I also set my TH pitch curve to -100, 0, 0, 0, +100 in TH when I am setting up the heli and I then know that my swash is definitely at mid-stick anywhere from 1/4 stick to 3/4 stick and don't need to be really careful about making sure that it is in the middle.

I'm not trying to knock what you have done - just suggest some alternatives for some tasks - as said previously usually 2 - 4 ways of doing anything
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:27 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikej View Post

I'm not trying to knock what you have done - just suggest some alternatives for some tasks - as said previously usually 2 - 4 ways of doing anything


For sure. Lots of ways. Throttle curves are more flexible as you said. I may do that later.
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Old 10-19-2019, 09:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
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For throttle hold I override the throttle channel with the hold switch.

Click image for larger version

Name:	T Hold.jpg
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:33 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydros27 View Post
For throttle hold I override the throttle channel with the hold switch.



Attachment 821145


^ Easiest way. +1
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:16 PM   #15 (permalink)
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... except -100 isn't necessarily the correct override because the -100 in the mixes gets scaled by the end point on the outputs page. That's why overrides are a problem. If your negative end point is significantly different from -100, there is a significantly high chance that your motor won't turn off when you flip throttle hold. What would be better, is a mixed line for your throttle channel that applies -100 when your throttle hold switch is in the hold position.

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Old 11-13-2019, 12:35 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xoexoe View Post
^ Easiest way. +1
Not a good way to set throttle hold as stated above. Throttle hold should be applied on the throttle chanel using a flat curve with 2 points both set to -100.This will select absolute zero after all of your mixes.

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Old 11-15-2019, 07:50 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I don't use curves so the override works well for me. I have all my helicopters set up this way and throttle hold functions as intended everytime.
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Old 11-30-2019, 09:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindnyc View Post
Not a good way to set throttle hold as stated above. Throttle hold should be applied on the throttle chanel using a flat curve with 2 points both set to -100.This will select absolute zero after all of your mixes.

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

Wouldn't a line setting the source to MAX with the curve set to Diff and multiplex to replace do the same thing without needing an extra curve just for that?
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Old 11-30-2019, 09:31 PM   #19 (permalink)
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It would.

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Old 11-30-2019, 09:33 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Ok so I bought an X9 Lite to tinker around with Open TX with so I can continue using my Horus X10 with my existing setups. This is what I came up with for a helicopter setup.


I decided that I like having a throttle hold that uses the pitch curve of the current flight mode rather than being it's own flight mode.


Is there a reason I'd want to use ADD instead of Replace in the mixer lines? Replace works and it seems that it would prevent unwanted interactions if I overlooked something. However the multirotor wizard which was the starting point for this setup defaults to ADD.
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