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360CFX Blade 360 CFX Helicopters Information and Help


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Old 12-19-2019, 12:57 PM   #21 (permalink)
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been there, done that! Stock 360CFX ESC did that to me a couple times, so I switched out to an over-built Talon 60, which did the same [email protected] thing! Reprogrammed the Talon 60 to turn off over-current sensing, no more shut downs.
I have installed full telemetry in both my Trio 360cfx. I thought i will be warned before the ESC would shut down, but in a calm flight, 6 Minutes after takeoff, it suddenly shut down. Current was only 8A! ESC temperature 35C. I could not belive. There was no reason for shutdown. After touchdown, suddenly motor started!
I sent the logfile to Castle Creation, to ask what could be happened. They told me, the Tx connection might have been lost. But the log shows continous connection and continous throttle from Rx. I tried again the next day, with distance 5m from Tx. After 2 minutes of hovering in 2m height, the same occured. Again i sent the log, no answer from CC at all.
So i refused to a Castle Talon 60 and to a Castle Edge aswell, and went for a YGE 35 LVT. Now i have super smooth sinus startup, only 25g of ESC weight, less internal resistance, no temperature issues, less current drain, and longer flighttime. In addition, full telemtry including capacity, BEC voltage and ESC output. Very happy with YGE in both my Trio 360, i will stay with.
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Old 12-19-2019, 02:32 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The_Fox View Post
I guess its the AR636. A japanese modeller witch i call a friend, very skilled in building and flying, just bought a brandnew 360cfx 3S. Imediately he told me about tail wag - and did not solved. No mecanical issue, he would have solved easy if it was mecanical.

H3060 performes fine in Trio 360cfx (AR7210) and in Blade 270 6S. And some other Blade Helis aswell. Only those with AR636 are reported to have tail wag issues.

Ok - well you've saved me pouring money into a servo then. I'd only be disappointed. I'll have to do some thinking about whether i want to replace the electronics on this thing or just fly as-is.
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Old 12-20-2019, 06:12 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Your issue with your 360 is "almost" assuredly not the servo. The description sounded mechanical to me. If the previous comments about the AR636 are true, then it should purely be a gain adjustment. If that were the case, then you should be able to go into your gyro settings in tx and try lowering the settings and see if it improves.


I will say that gyro settings are usually pretty easy to figure out once you have narrowed down where to adjust. However, mechanical problems take a bit of investigation into every single piece of your tail and your tail's movement. This could be from too much friction in your rod support, to an overtightened screw in your lever mount, to a bearing not fully seated in your grips. It only takes one very minor thing to be out of spec in the movement pieces for it to cause a wag.


The suggestion for a better servo was a two-fold item. One, the performance of the 3060 is pretty good on my Oxy 2s, but you can look at the specs and it is very easy to see that there are much better out there for sure. Will those specs be sufficient? Probably so. I only know that when I put on a mini on my 360, it was one of the better tails I have flown with. Second, if you do have minor mechanical issues in the tail that can't be figured out, a better and stronger servo will in many times over-power them. It is a form of hiding the problem that is not normally suggested, but sometimes an added benefit. Heard several stories of guys early on in the new Oxy 2 days using the 3060 and not able to figure out wag, add a better stronger servo and the problems go away. Sometimes you feel like you've done everything possible and the problem persists. Personally, I don't like the amount of slop in the servo. This can be seen by powering it up and putting pressure on the arm and seeing how much it still moves freely. They start out pretty good but develop slop fairly quickly. Maybe quicker than most servos - all servos develop slop over time.


I would only consider the servo after everything has been investigated and worked out. Rebuild and re-grease the grips, play around with gyro settings and see what you get first and go from there.
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Old 12-20-2019, 07:52 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Thanks jrman83, I will do that! I've been thinking about getting some larger tail blades. Perhaps ones with a wider cord. The oxy 4 max I just built has really wide cord on the tail blades (like twice as wide). How would that affect things?



I've got everything pulled apart right now. Waiting for some new parts as I found some stuff I didn't like (might have been bent a little). Hopefully, with new parts, everything will be butter smooth and will have no further problems.
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Old 12-20-2019, 09:12 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Blades can help. Just be sure to verify root size and bolt hole size of the grips to make sure they will fit. Also check length and make sure you're not exceeding max recommended length. Blade strike is not good.

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Old 12-20-2019, 09:32 AM   #26 (permalink)
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On the Fusion 270 Brian Bremer has suggested lowering D gain on the AR636 even all the way to 0 if needed. This got rid of the tail wag for many but not all with that model. I would try the same on yours.
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Old 12-20-2019, 09:39 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jrman83 View Post
Blades can help. Just be sure to verify root size and bolt hole size of the grips to make sure they will fit. Also check length and make sure you're not exceeding max recommended length. Blade strike is not good.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Thats the part I won't know. I won't know what blade says is the max recommended length as i'm sure it doesn't say anywhere. Any way to guess?
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Old 12-20-2019, 02:35 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fiddle View Post
Thats the part I won't know. I won't know what blade says is the max recommended length as i'm sure it doesn't say anywhere. Any way to guess?

I would assume that eyeballing it is ok? It looks like there is quite a distance before the tail blades would be hitting the main blades (like multiple cm). The stock are 65mm. I found some 71mm rotortechs that have a roughly 10mm wider cord (22mm vs like 12mm).
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Old 12-21-2019, 04:30 PM   #29 (permalink)
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then it should purely be a gain adjustment. If that were the case, then you should be able to go into your gyro settings in tx and try lowering the settings and see if it improves.
First, tail gain adjustment isn't done this way for AR636. Its described in the manual, how to enter Gain adjustment menu of AR636, and what changes are needet to be done to witch Parameter to get the result you want.

Quote:
the performance of the 3060 is pretty good on my Oxy 2s, but you can look at the specs and it is very easy to see that there are much better out there for sure.
I disagree, except You can show at least one to me.
H3060 ist pretty fast, as the AR636 runs it at 5,5V and 333Hz. I could not find any other to meet this specs.

Quote:
I've been thinking about getting some larger tail blades
As i have the 360cfx Trio, wich has more Torque and weight, and performs fine with stock tail blades, i can not agree that longer tail blades could help.
I have build two scale modells with Trio 360cfx, both at 1500g takeoff-weight. Both fly with slighty shorted tail blades. And both perform fine. So as Your Main Rotor is twoblade, and produces less Torque, and the weight of Your Heli is much less than mine, your Tail might be overpowered. I would not reccomend trying longer tail blades.

The reasons for my shorter blades were only to be "Scale". It worked fine with stock blades aswell. So you should try to set up Tail Gain according to the manual first.
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Old 12-22-2019, 02:55 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Tail on my fusion 270 works just perfect with AR636 and H3060. I have replaced cyclic H3050 servos due to bad crash resistency of stock ones, but am very settisfied with stock tail one (i am nearing 1000 flights with 9 crashes on it).
Tail wagged out of the box, but playing around a bit with PIDs and gyro values quickly solved the issue.
But you have to learn how PIDs work and adjust them accordingly to your heli behaviour, not just lower the D gain because somebody wrote it somewhere 😁
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Old 12-22-2019, 10:14 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Tail wagged out of the box, but playing around a bit with PIDs and gyro values quickly solved the issue.
But you have to learn how PIDs work and adjust them accordingly to your heli behaviour, not just lower the D gain because somebody wrote it somewhere
Thanks for reporting! That was just what i thought it could work. Nice to hear someone has figured out to have the AR636 flying smoot with Pitch Tail.
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Old 12-23-2019, 08:41 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I might have a chance to try on Friday. Winter here so opportunities to fly are spotty. I could have flown this weekend but wife had me working on floors in the house
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Old 12-27-2019, 11:37 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The_Fox View Post
I guess its the AR636. A japanese modeller witch i call a friend, very skilled in building and flying, just bought a brandnew 360cfx 3S. Imediately he told me about tail wag - and did not solved. No mecanical issue, he would have solved easy if it was mecanical.

H3060 performes fine in Trio 360cfx (AR7210) and in Blade 270 6S. And some other Blade Helis aswell. Only those with AR636 are reported to have tail wag issues.
Replacing the AR636 with a different type of FBL did not make any noticeable change in the tail wag on my 360CFX 3S. It did solve some other important issues with the heli though, so I recommend doing it. I have tried adjusting the basic tail gain everywhere across its full range. I have not tried adjusting all of the PID parameters, though.

Replacing the tail servo would not be a bad idea, IMHO. I have rebuilt a number of H3050's and H3060's, and I can tell you that the the quality control on them is not good. The gear trains on these things vary widely. You might get a good one, or you might get a really poor one. They are decently fast, but some of them have lot more free play in the gears than others. Although they have metal gears, it is a soft aluminum alloy that is easily damaged if you ever have a blade strike.
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Old 12-28-2019, 05:07 AM   #34 (permalink)
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I got rid of the tail wag (sort of) in the low headspeed by setting max "P" and turning the main gyro "Gain" all the way up to 100%. The tail is still what I would call sloppy.

It was funny, I spent 4 packs messing with the tail across the three headspeeds. I got it to at least stop wagging. It is anything but locked in though if you compare it to something else. the model is unstable. I used to think it was stable. Then I flew my new oxy4 max, yesterday, with brain2 right after flying the 360cfx. Now THAT is stable. It actually encourages you to try maneuvers. I wonder what the 360cfx would feel like with brain2 + the servos + ESC and a better motor (similar to what all I have installed on oxy4 max)? ie: Is it the model or the electronics or both that make the oxy4max so wonderful to fly?
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Old 12-28-2019, 03:41 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Well, to answer that, what headspeed do you run on the Oxy, and what headspeed on the Blade 360cfx? The 6S Blade 360cfx is easyly running 2800 RPM with stock motor and pinion/main Gear. Tail locks really in.
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Old 12-28-2019, 03:43 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The_Fox View Post
Well, to answer that, what headspeed do you run on the Oxy, and what headspeed on the Blade 360cfx? The 6S Blade 360cfx is easyly running 2800 RPM with stock motor and pinion/main Gear. Tail locks really in.
I measured head speed last summer on 360cfx (3s not 6s):

normal: ~2800
stunt 1: ~3000
stunt 2: ~3200

Oxy4 max is set to:

normal: 2400
stunt 1: 2700
stunt 2: 3000
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Old 12-29-2019, 02:06 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Allright, You have plenty of Headspeed. It really should be stable....
Really sad it is not.
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Old 12-30-2019, 05:30 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Allright, You have plenty of Headspeed. It really should be stable....
Really sad it is not.

jrman83 helped me do some other testing than what i was doing. I found that these links were too tight. I made a sizing tool out of the links from my plastic tail grip. They are now looser. will need to wait for a nicer day so i can flight test though.



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Old 12-30-2019, 11:15 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Oh Yes, the links have to be absolutely loose. When i turn my tail unit upside down, the sleeve slips from one End to the other by itself easyly. This is the stock plastik unit, still workes fine.
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:42 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Oh Yes, the links have to be absolutely loose. When i turn my tail unit upside down, the sleeve slips from one End to the other by itself easyly.

Yes - thats some of the testing he had me do. See if it would fall under its own weight when tipped on its side without the rod hooked up. It did not which led me to discovering that the links were too tight. Previously, i'd only been testing the grips turning and the sliding separately, never with those links hooked up. Hooking up those links, the tail instantly became tight.
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