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LiIon, LiPo, NiCd & NiMh General General Battery Support


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Old 01-07-2019, 08:43 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default HRB Batteries

Hi,

I have started using these HRB brand batteries (6s 5000 mah) for my 550 size helicopter, and I am pretty happy with the out of the box performance so far.

There is nothing on the label or the instructions about charge rates. So, I am playing it safe at 1C.

Does anyone have any information on these batteries and whether I can charge them at greater than 1C?

Thanks
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Old 01-07-2019, 08:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I have 6 batteries that are in 3 x 12s stick configuration. Seem to work well. I only charge at 1C to be safe.

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Old 01-08-2019, 03:38 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Wasn't there a thread about these having high IR values ?
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Old 01-08-2019, 04:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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i have 6 of the 5000 mah 6s 100c graphene packs with 7 cycles now and i.r. is still dropping. Last I measured they were aound 1.3 mohm per cell. Pretty happy with them so far.
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Old 01-16-2019, 02:17 AM   #5 (permalink)
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+1 on graphene packs, awesome low IR and performance is out of this world.

Any real, performance oriented, higher-ish C rated pack I would feel safe charging at up to 5C. Although, I obviously don't (frequently) do that, I just feel it degrades life span.

It's the really low C rated packs that you need to be extra extra careful about with charge rates, because charge rates and loads could exceed the battery's typical load sustainability. But, for packs made to power our machines, drive big motors, and deal with some serious amp loads, up to 5C is safe, 3C is my typical max for at the field, quick but not crazy charging.

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Old 01-16-2019, 03:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I do charge all my packs at 2c including HRB. And yes, there were some unfortunate buyers that got bad IR for the 5000s but mine had been superb. They were 3~4 milliohm when I got them but drop to 1.5 milliohm just after one flight. Take a look at their 6s 6000 as well, the size is comparable to Gensace 6s 5000.
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Old 07-03-2019, 10:25 AM   #7 (permalink)
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How are the 50C (non Graphine) packs, 5000mAh cells in particular?
IR numbers would be nice too?


Price on Amazon is very tempting to try some...
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:31 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Why are these batteries so little discussed? Pretty impressive counts on the label but almost no videos on youtube where people use them.

How good they are?
It seems IR is around 1.3-1.5 for 5000 packs...
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:16 AM   #9 (permalink)
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You need to take reported IR values with a pinch of salt because it varies massivly depending on what you use to measure. Powerlab chargers especially produce very low values.

I was one of those the probably got unlucky with HRB. I had 4 packs which had sky high IR numbers of around 10mOhm for the 5000mAh 6S 50C packs. This was using a Revolectrix IR meter which is supposed to be the most accurate available. This IR measurement was after about 15 gentle 'break in' cycles. Not surprisingly, the very first time I pushed these packs even close to hard a pack dropped two cells and puffed up, the battery was toast.

HRB at least stood behind their product and gave me a refund. A friend had 6 packs and they were all similar to mine. They were bought around the same time so I assume came from the same 'bad batch'.

Since then I've tested a few other HRB 5000 packs purchased at different times all with the revo IR meter. They were a lot better than the ones i had but still high IR compared to other batteries, typically they were measuring 5-6mOhm whereas my other packs are 3-4mOhm on the same meter.

See a couple, of photos attached. One shows the IR of the pack after several break-in cycles and the other showing the dropped cells after the pack failed.

I'd only buy HRB now if I could pre-test the packs before purchase. I did enquire if HRB could test the batteries themselves and ship them with a certificate showing their IR, but they said they couldn't do it.
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:27 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
You need to take reported IR values with a pinch of salt because it varies massively depending on what you use to measure. Powerlab chargers especially produce very low values.
… unless reported from using a Wayne Giles ESR meter. Just for the record Revolectrix reverse engineered a meter that Wayne sent to them for evaluation.

A couple of club mates are using HRB packs and are working very well for them with no reported problems or failures.
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:56 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy from Sandy View Post
… unless reported from using a Wayne Giles ESR meter. Just for the record Revolectrix reverse engineered a meter that Wayne sent to them for evaluation..
Revo say that is not true. They used a Wayne Giles ESR meter to calibrate their own meter so that both would generate similar values, but the design
was not copied (according to Revo).
I tend to agree with them because the two meters work very differently. The Wayne Giles only does one cell at a time, the Revo does 6. Plus there is no evidence it was copied that I’m aware of.
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Old 12-06-2019, 10:09 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The Ovonic and Hoovo lipos on Amazon are cheap and have been good so far with no puffing and low IR's. You also have 30 days to return them and they will provide the shipping labels and fee.
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Old 12-06-2019, 10:12 AM   #13 (permalink)
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From what I have read the HRB Graphene perform well while the regular line are junk.

I almost bought some off Amazon (regular) and asked seller for an IR. He boasted usually around 5-6 mil ohm per cell on a 5K pack. Needless to say I passed.

In the LiPo test rcg thread the Graphenes look top notch. So just don't buy the wrong ones.

I was looking at these for reference...
https://www.amazon.ca/HRB-Battery-Qu...NsaWNrPXRydWU=
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Old 12-06-2019, 10:21 AM   #14 (permalink)
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4IR, it's completely different from my expectations... It seems quality control is not so good if they have died after a single hard push...

it’s like a lottery where you can pay a lot of money and it’s not known whether you’re lucky
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:46 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default HRB Graphenes are a fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by GimpyGolden View Post
From what I have read the HRB Graphene perform well while the regular line are junk.

I almost bought some off Amazon (regular) and asked seller for an IR. He boasted usually around 5-6 mil ohm per cell on a 5K pack. Needless to say I passed.

In the LiPo test rcg thread the Graphenes look top notch. So just don't buy the wrong ones.

I was looking at these for reference...
https://www.amazon.ca/HRB-Battery-Qu...NsaWNrPXRydWU=
Don't waste your money on any HRB "graphene" packs. They are the exacts same cheap 50C packs but charging double the price for them. Only difference is a fancy carbon fiber look black wrapper on them instead of clear. RCG guys have also recently verified this as they tested to the exact same 30C as the regular packs do

They are the same dimensions and weight within the typical margins of error between same packs, and came with IR 4.5 + cell IR. We all know that real graphene packs are much larger and heavier for the same capacity of a regular pack, with much lower IR values so it's not possible to have all the exact same values in a graphene pack as they claim here.

I tried one for the first time yesterday and it performed no better than my $50 2 year old Turnigy Blue pack with over a hundred cycles on it, which still has half the IR of the new so called graphene pack.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...65#post7963323
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:54 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Thanks for the heads up.
I wouldn't have chanced the Graphene on price, rather go with a known brand for about same cost.


The cheap clear wrapped ones though I may give a shot. At least with amazon if they're junk you can just send em back.
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:45 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayted View Post
I tried one for the first time yesterday and it performed no better than my $50 2 year old Turnigy Blue pack with over a hundred cycles on it, which still has half the IR of the new so called graphene pack.
This was also my exact experience and i also used a cheapo 100+ cycle Turnigy Blue 40C as my reference point. The IR on my 4 HRB 50C (standard type, not Graphene) was 3 times higher than my old Turnigy 40C. It's really nice to see someone else take the time to do some objective testing and come up with similar results.

I accept that I probably got bad batteries but I personally wouldn't take the chance again. Even returning where you theoretically have the option to do so isn't easy in the UK because no couriers will carry large used LiPos.
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Last edited by Smoggie; 01-14-2020 at 12:15 AM..
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Old 01-13-2020, 06:03 PM   #18 (permalink)
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My best cell IR at 70F/21C environment after full charge is now 3.3 milliohm. This is after five pre-charge and discharge "exercise" rounds at home, and three normal flights and 3C charge cycles at the field like I do with all my other packs. It was an unusually warm 70F this past weekend, so not a low temp batt issue at all. I dont expect anything to really change further at this point, and that calculates out to about 20C at best.

My RC Proplus connectors on the pack are worth more to me and I dont feel like going through the hassle of removing them and returning the battery even though Amazon would easily allow it, so I'm just going to keep flying it since its "OK" for my 516, and then I will retire it to a setup pack or some other low current use when the time comes.

On the other hand, my old and very worn in Turnigy Blue 40C pack like yours is still at 2.1 milliohm or under per cell under the same circumstances, so 24C after many cycles.

Live and learn. We all know that all C ratings from any batt maker is BS, but at least I know that I will get an actual low IR graphene pack from HK if I choose to pay for one, even if the C rating is really 50 vs the 75 on the wrapper. These guys on the other hand are willfully lying and ripping people off with these fake graphene packs at a 100% markup and that is not cool. Never again at any price for me.
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Last edited by Xrayted; 01-13-2020 at 06:29 PM..
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