Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > 100 Class Electric Helicopters


100 Class Electric Helicopters 100 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-26-2020, 04:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2018
Default HK K110 feathering spindle keeps coming apart!

I use the blue threadloc when attaching the feathering spindle. However, for some reason It has come apart in flight multiple times. It especially happens on the red metal version of the head assembly (grips, head and swash) I don't understand why this has happened. It never happened with the black metal one that you get from motion RC. regardless, what difference does it make, you are still screwing into the same metal feathering spindle. What am I doing wrong? clearly the threadlock is not holding it. Should I switch to red? But then I worry it will never come off. (unless it comes off by heating it?) thoughts on this? Very frustrating, not to mention dangerous since that causes the blades to become darts. God forbid I'm close enough for it to hit me.
bpjacobsen is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-26-2020, 05:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,351
 

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Wauwatosa, WI
Default

My guess is that it's the wrong screw for the shaft or there is oil in it preventing the thread lock from holding. Make sure that the screw doesn't wiggle around when you have it half way in. Also, always clean the screws and shafts in some type of solvent and then let completely dry before assembly.
__________________
P Max v2, G570, N556, XL520, S516, P380x2, XK K110, Open-TX
JWeber is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-26-2020, 05:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Apr 2018
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWeber View Post
My guess is that it's the wrong screw for the shaft or there is oil in it preventing the thread lock from holding. Make sure that the screw doesn't wiggle around when you have it half way in. Also, always clean the screws and shafts in some type of solvent and then let completely dry before assembly.

But the screws are like microscopic. Would mineral spirits work? Put a little bit in a small dish or cup and swish the screws and shaft around then let it sit on a paper towel? Never had anyone suggest this before on the many threads for this and other helis. I know it's the correct screws since they are included with each feathering spindle. Thanks
bpjacobsen is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-27-2020, 07:15 AM   #4 (permalink)
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,351
 

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Wauwatosa, WI
Default

I know. They're tiny. Mineral spirits should work. Swish them around and then pat them dry with a paper towel. Let em sit overnight for the rest to evaporate.
__________________
P Max v2, G570, N556, XL520, S516, P380x2, XK K110, Open-TX
JWeber is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-27-2020, 07:20 AM   #5 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Dec 2006
Default

Also maybe get some Loctite 243 that is better able to cope with a bit of oil.
Andy from Sandy is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-29-2020, 12:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Apr 2018
Default

scratch all this. the problem apparently is the red metal upgrade grips etc is really designed for the K120 so the issue is that the spindle is not long enough. The price you pay for doing business with china. poor QA. got it off amazon but it was supposed to be the black one that motion rc sells for K110. the kicker is when I told them it was the wrong one AND it was missing the rotor head, they sent the same exact thing again and without the rotor head again! Like WTH?
bpjacobsen is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-30-2020, 09:13 AM   #7 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Germany / Nuremberg
Default

As I see two threads activate, just let me link the 2nd thread answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpjacobsen View Post
the problem apparently is the red metal upgrade grips etc is really designed for the K120 so the issue is that the spindle is not long enough.
I can confirm that the K110 spindle is too short when I try to use it with the red aluminium blade holders (from the K120):

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...33#post8022355
__________________
Walkera Devo 10/DeviationTX (12CH DSMx & telemetry)...Ex-DX8...Blade 4503D...Walkera V120D02s...XK K110...Blade 200QX quad...Ex-NanoCPX...Ex-120SR...StrykerQ (LEDs, M2 tuning)...Ex-MPX EGP...PPZ P51-D...PZ Wildcat (searching fuselage-firewall)
Thomas.Heiss is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2020, 06:52 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Germany / Nuremberg
Default

My answer in the other "Spindle nightmares" thread about the alu red parts and sanding/grinding down the silver cone washers or finding other washer replacements: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=8079561

I also had my German XK dealer ship me the K120 feathering shaft. It was just an idea...too good to be true
I can confirm that it has exactly the same length as the K110 spindle :-(

So basically the whole 18EUR BG red parts can go to the recycle bin.
My German dealer would have even asked for 25EUR for the same set parts (including the top head block).


motionrc.com writes in their K110 spindle product description: 18.5mm.

I measured several spindles from my K110 spare bags (2019 + 2020) and I can also confirm this spec.
All are 18.5mm long and have no longer tolerances (not even slightly).


So the problem are obviously the tolerances of the alu blade holders and that the outer bearing which you put into the grip does not go in enough.

As I wrote above, I have the same problem with my own red alu head set.
And I guess it won't be the head block as the rubber rings correctly fit into the milled out head area...but I have to measure the blocks again to be sure.

..(...)..

The only solution for the red/black aluminium blade holders tuning set:

Use another better fitting cone washer.
Both silver cones are more than 1,x mm thick.

I picked up a suggestion from a K130 thread by search machine (somewhere, I do not know the forum) that I found by accident that pilots usually have the same problems there as the head set aluminium (sorry, I did not save the thread id) parts do not fit the spindle length?!?

It was suggested to grind down the cone washers or use other washers which might better fit in the head.

..(...)..

Maybe I will check Blade Mcpx V2 / BL parts from my nearby dealer if any washer better fits but prices are ridiculous (and there only is a complete head set...nobody reachable usually sells extra small cone washers for 1,5mm shafts).
I will have to try to contact an Austria heli store and see what their experiences are for those XK parts.

First I will try sanding down with the plastic head as only about ~0.25-0.5mm are missing (no so much) when the spindle is stuck in the middle of the bearing which is not much bigger than 1,x mm; I am not sure if this is possible for me.
With the red aluminium head set I would have to sand down the two silver washers even more to fix the gap.

All my K110 silver cone washers from multiple part 2019/2020 bags have the same thickness.
There neither are any tolerances there which you could fix by buying multiple head rubber bags.
__________________
Walkera Devo 10/DeviationTX (12CH DSMx & telemetry)...Ex-DX8...Blade 4503D...Walkera V120D02s...XK K110...Blade 200QX quad...Ex-NanoCPX...Ex-120SR...StrykerQ (LEDs, M2 tuning)...Ex-MPX EGP...PPZ P51-D...PZ Wildcat (searching fuselage-firewall)
Thomas.Heiss is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2020, 07:19 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Germany / Nuremberg
Default

Personally it is not any big surprise to me that the head may come apart, even on the plastic one.

I also have the problem described above in the previous comment on 3+ plastic heads; looks like half a millimeter of the spindle is always missing! On the other side the spindle never matches with the border of the outer top bearing when I (fully) screw the Philips screw into on the other side (until it reaches the spindle end and is fixed as it should be)!!

Interestingly, I picked up a thread from 2018 that the K110/K120 feathering shaft was too long so the head had play?!??

The idea of another writer who ran into another problem, that XK put two 1,xmm bearings in the outer hole at the same time on his heli unfortunately was not true for any of my 3-5 plastic heads; I removed the two bearings on all plastic blade holders to check this.


..(...)..

When I took apart one damaged blade holder from a previously flying BNF K110 heli I noticed that the spindle also does not go really through the 2nd bearing to match with the top/outside border so you can properly mount the screw until the very end of the feathering shaft.

This makes me wonder:
How the heck did it fly like this just fine and nothing came apart in the air and why?!?
Also I was able to unscrew the spindle and the screws were not loctited.


So even with the plastic blade holders there always is some preload on the head OR the one screw on the other side NEVER fully tigthens until the end of the spindle.

The other problem I personally run into is this:
When I try to tigthen the other side (with the spindle gap in the outer bearing), the one blade holder bearing does not want to freely move and it scratches badly.

So the only solution might be to try to "center" the spindle between the two blade holder bearings and not to fully mount the Philips screw on the 1st spindle side to prevent that the other side goes into rough blocking mode because of missing ~0.5mm.

------------------------

I fear that a 4mm drill won't fix the issue on the plastic holders and I can not mount them any deeper in the plastic blade holders.
And maybe I damage more on the plastic that it will help me.

However, this was another suggestion from a user somewhere I stumbled across several weeks ago.

What was interesting when I removed the outer bearings (where the main blades go into):

When I tried to refit them into the blade holder, they seemed to want to fit the 4mm bearing diameter on the inside without any problem?!
I did not notice that they somehow blocked when I carefully pressed them into and maybe on the inside the milled out hole was not big enough.
Obviously this was not the case.


-------------------

I feel like wanting to throw my head against the wall and I can't believe that not any engineer or QS guy run into those issues once or ever.

How the heck do these technican Chinese guys assemble K110/K120 plastic or aluminium heads with those obvious issues and bad tolerances?

But no, I do not really wonder:
2+ cyclic K110 servos are bad out of the box and the plastic gears just move not smooth enough when I turn the servo arm by hand.
One was mounted on a BNF K110 heli which gave a really bad noteable gear stop (and bad sound) when I try to move it.
The other one was sent in a spare bag and is not "that bad", the electronic board can move it when I give collective or cyclic or both...but the gears simply are not as smooth as the other cyclic servos which are just fine on the K110 BNF helis.

Why would a Chinese technican mount a bad servo or put it into a spare bag without taking ~5-10 seconds to try to turn the servo arm by hand and check if the gears run freely/smoothly?


I wish we could buy a BNF XK heli where NOTHING is assembled/mounted and where I can take care of this.

Personally it takes me way more time to FIX those issues when everything is already installed (like fixing 90 degree servo arm angle where you have to unplug cables and unmount servo safer and servos).
__________________
Walkera Devo 10/DeviationTX (12CH DSMx & telemetry)...Ex-DX8...Blade 4503D...Walkera V120D02s...XK K110...Blade 200QX quad...Ex-NanoCPX...Ex-120SR...StrykerQ (LEDs, M2 tuning)...Ex-MPX EGP...PPZ P51-D...PZ Wildcat (searching fuselage-firewall)
Thomas.Heiss is offline        Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply




Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the HeliFreak forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your REAL and WORKING email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Use a real email address or you will not be granted access to the site. Thank you.
Email Address:
Location
Where do you live? ie: Country, State, City or General Geographic Location please.
Name and Lastname
Enter name and last name here. (This information is not shown to the general public. Optional)
Helicopter #1
Enter Helicopter #1 type and equipment.
Helicopter #2
Enter Helicopter #2 type and equipment.
Helicopter #3
Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © Website Acquisitions Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1