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Electric Motors Winding and Repair Electric Motors Winding and Repair Discussion


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Old 04-23-2020, 12:32 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Please use english in english threads.
Thanks
Rick
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Old 04-23-2020, 02:06 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I'am not able to discuss in english, it is not my native language.


In the case, german language isn't welcome here anymore,

pls. delete immediately all my posts in this forum and my account too!


kind regards,
Dr. Ralph Okon
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Old 04-23-2020, 02:13 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powercroco View Post
I'am not able to discuss in english, it is not my native language.


In the case, german language isn't welcome here anymore,

pls. delete immediately all my posts in this forum and my account too!


kind regards,
Dr. Ralph Okon
Wow, I was under the impression you wrote english very well. I was looking to make your information more accessible to our membership. Why would you suggest deleting anything?

Rick
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Old 04-23-2020, 03:28 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Knock it off already Ralph
Hes trying to be funny because they have issue on the German forums hes on and the ones youre excluded from with what Languge you speak. He's tying to be cute as u know no one from helifreak support has told him German wasn't allowed till now. He knows very well we are inclusive here. He just doesn't like tasting his own medicine of baseless conjecture. They have an entire thread in his land where they gripe about having to deal with other languages. For some reason google isn't good enuf for his crew of F3S speeders. Of course many German insults dont translate directly. U know its pure nonsense as you know how many threads here hes posted in ENGLISH!!!!!

https://www.helifreak.com/search.php..._%20powercroco

You can confirm this exclusion and nonsense with Christian Lucas .... a much better source to pin in the first place.
Your post about him using English is the first taste of his own medicine and him not posting is his way of trying to punish us. I think the USA can live without this information,. Youre supposed to back off of your request if you want this VALUABLE info. Let him leave if he feels that way coz they ban every piece of valid info coming out the USA and from Christian Lucas, one of the founding fathers of the machines were winding. He argues against even the brightest minds in Germany like Dieter with only his limited research with hand held motors. Not even ABB hubertus award recipients can top this guy.
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Old 04-28-2020, 12:23 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Wow Christian this is basically your idea that was locked out of rc network.
Looks like there are some there with the ability to evolve.

F3Speed-Dobrindt-Limited - Seite 24

No worries for those who can think outside of a box.
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Old 04-28-2020, 12:40 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Wettbewerbsvorschlag 1000 Watt Speedklasse

U see here Christian had a much more elaborate setup that was locked out along with the suggestion of a product from NEUMOTORS . The academic stuff the limited group had no interest. U see Christian does not need Alex's designs
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Old 05-07-2020, 11:07 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powercroco View Post
Alte Feindschaften soll man gut pflegen!



You should take care of getting him more speed since hes only at 119 miles per hour with your HK contra drive but it sounds cool.




Cheers
Hubert
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Old 05-07-2020, 01:06 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Hi PC, why did Kunipatz build the Lockheed XFV instead of the Triebflügeljäger?
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Old 05-16-2020, 04:36 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Kunipatz most recent post on the ineffciency of contra drives

Hi Christian,

Due to counter-rotating propellers, there is no need for tension and fall settings the force vectors are simply straight forward, which alone generates a higher efficiency of the drive.
have you ever taken measurements for this? Because I have just come to different results over the years.

Mind game: You have a power X, a resulting prop diameter D and slope S. On the counter-runner, the power is divided into two propellers (whether by gearbox, 2 motors or your double turn). You drive two propellers with a diameter of D, each with 1/2 X. You can play with the rear propeller, reduce D and raise S a bit. But you have to be careful that the overall system stays in balance, some would say in resonance.

In turn, a normal drive has once X, once D, and you can pull up the speed and incline S until X is exhausted. Sorry, but in the more than 10 years I've been dealing with it, I've never had a counter-runner drive that would have beaten a normal drive within these parameters.

There are, of course, points that almost dictate a counter-runner: because the role model had one, because it is cool, because you want to eliminate the torque. All this is indisputable, but one must be aware of the disadvantages.

The fact that the Great Role Models use counter-runners is not true because of its superior efficiency; they simply do not know how to pump the power (with a given prop diameter->supersonic at the blade tips) into a normal propeller.

Greeting Rene
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Old 05-16-2020, 04:37 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default ChX replies

Hi Sebastian,

we do not have to explain everything in a comprehensible way for René. We know that by such a reaction motor you can halve the number of turns in order to reach the 15000 rpm as desired by T.Modlman. Instead of a three-blade propeller, a two-by-two propeller is used. And clearly it needs a special adjustment of the propeller blades.. I was energised by the collaboration with DLR in Oberpfaffenhofen for the altitude record helicopter, which is powered by a Lehner 7040. Here it is a interlocking Flettner Rotor as it is used in the Kaman K Max helicopters. The power of two counter-rotating rotors is increased by 39%. It is simply up to the suitable aeronautical engineers to design everything right here. The conclusion is that it works very well and above all that is what I am concerned about is that the drive motor has to be only half the size due to the differential speed of the two propellers. The number of winding halves the cross-section of the wind7ngen doubled. Since the new Lehner was of course more designed for the model helicopters, Hans Lehner has aspecific focus on minimising losses from low speeds to high speeds. Realizing this is quite tricky and took me a lot of time. Originally I only wanted my direct heli drive on opposite conversions, then a Flying Stick was added and a drive for an experimental flight model with the opposite props. All run to the best of their satisfaction. So why not also use in speed flight. Simply ever bigger engines has never been my thing.
@René ,
tja, does not work as desired by you, is already. But you point out, with the plug coils you also said that they are only good for a cheap production as with Köhler Actro. Lehner has developed something better from this, but it is not a cheaper solution at all, but a lot of craftsmanship, skill and know-how demands. The engines are so successful that Lehner Motorentechnik had little time for the new model engine development. The new motors are also available with liquid cooling, which makes them even more powerful, but you predicted that this will not work and will not be useful for YOU. Right, not necessary for your applications.

Another link to the helicopter rotor blade, opposite, more power, yes this is a helicopter, the guys can also lay out speed propellers.

https://www.dglr.de/publikationen/2015/370343.pdf

Happy Amps Christian
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Old 05-16-2020, 04:47 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Lehner 4125/4140 Vorstellung - Seite 2

Erwin restarted the Lehner thread.

Here you can read Kunipatz go on about the inefficiencies of contra drives at Christians suggestion while powercroco glorifies Kunipatz Contra drive here on the freak for MEHR SPEED with two HK's blazing at 119 mph



What a perfect place for Kunipatz info to land.
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Old 05-16-2020, 04:52 PM   #32 (permalink)
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…………….
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:26 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Default More on the topic from Christian Lucas

Hi René,

we don't know what you did wrong with your drives, that's not the issue here either. Just make a tread in which you present your opposing problems. Otherwise only this information. Ask Kaman why the still terrible intermeshing rotors whose tip eddies prevail even in the rotor circle still fly and achieve higher efficiencies. The Volvo Duoprop drive has been confirmed in tens of measurements as the most efficient boat drive. And that although propeller diameters are always too small, which means that the blade depth is always greater and the ratio of aspect ratio to blade depth is rather unfavorable. Even the biggest competitor in the boat propulsion market, Mercury, used almost the same verbal abuse and misinformation as you did to make the Volvo propulsion bad. However, after more and more measurements with the Volvo drives were published by many specialist magazines that all have certified the higher efficiency, i.e. lower consumption, higher top speed and better acceleration, Mercury has also offered counter-rotating propellers for its drives for several years. No one simply bought the old single propane drives.
The motor shown in the photo is a pointed motor that has integrated the controller into the motor. That was very practical and the rear mounting plate also provides a way to attach the propeller to the housing. As Sebastian rightly noted, I placed the bearing through which the entire drive can turn freely next to the vice. I don't show everything else yet. With the Flying Stick, a CFRP tube is attached to the back of the motor, in which the battery cells are located and even rotate with the drive, the most elegant solution that you can easily find in e.g. could install a Dornier 335 anteater with counter-rotating propellers at the very rear. There are many solutions to this. I talked to the DLR people about my helicopter drive, which I showed you for the altitude world record project, because fewer mechanical components can be used that can be defective. But the Flettner drive was already completely designed and built. The helicopter has a 3 meter rotor diameter.

Happy Amps Christian
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:07 AM   #34 (permalink)
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"
Moin Christian, I can live well with the drives that I have made. I don't claim to have reinvented physics, and there are plenty of threads in which I described them. Only you always show strangely meaningless pictures. Great propellers, by the way, they will catapult you right to the front. Volvo-Penta ... if you stand before the end of the market, you have to come up with something. It worked for them, the market believed the fairy tale. Of course, the lawyer had to have a better drive in his boat than the dentist on the dock next door. Other players are at the forefront of marine propulsion and outboard engines. I wonder why? Because it's not about marketing. Incidentally: water and air, but we already had enough of that for you. Arrived. Well, that is far-fetched even for you, but rather underlines my thesis, because with the Kaman drive the blades comb into each other, but lie side by side on one level. Ergo increased rotor area, ergo more thrust. You never wanted to achieve anything else. The swirls in the overlap area are negligible, since long gone when the next sheet is in place. Not so with the real coaxial counter-rotor (you will also notice this if your drive should fly): here the rear propeller is cutting the vortex ALL THE TIME! This requires special blade shapes, adapted gradients, speeds ... but of course you know that better than the rest. Pee-long stocking principle. Do you know when the engines for the Tupolev were developed? From the Junkers turbine team that the Soviets had collected in the 1940s, in the early 1950s. And of course you also know why it turned out to be counter-runners: because multi-blade turboprops were unimaginable from a production point of view at the time, and the guys somehow had to get the 10,000 horsepower on the props without having the blades burst in supersonic. That is basic knowledge, bring something better. Best new papers on the subject ... Something different: where on the Lehner side can I find the engine, what does it cost? I would just buy one and cross-test against the evil old Scorpion counter-runner. The better one then comes into a Bugatti that a buddy wants to build. The last update of the Lehner page is unfortunately interesting fun fact from 2015 but that motor cooling by radial fan is advertised there, against the air flow on the model. With the Scorpions, it was always devil's stuff and very inefficient. It seems to work great here.



Greetings, Rene"
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:09 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Hi Renec, the troll? No matter yes, the air cooling for the model car engines, no, the air cooling itself has not been demonized as bad. Only I wrote that the airflow should enter from the front and flow out to the rear. The Scorpion in the speed plane don't do that, that's my opinion. In RC Groups someone does that now. There is more important work at Lehner. You can do without your cross test, we already know the result, you as a Scorpion Sponsored Airplane will act like in the Speedfliegerforum. In addition, you will not be able to use the advantages. You have already proven that everything goes wrong with you and does not work that way.



Happy Amps Christian
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:10 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Well, how is the normal model pilot supposed to know that he can simply buy the great engines from Lehner if they are not in the shop? You have to exhibit such a novelty! Advertise in magazines etc. I know 3 pilots alone in our tailor's team, they would fight for such an opponent with ~ 1.5KW! Why do you shy away from the cross test? If your product is better ... I also know enough people who are objective and don't know you (yet). Oh, now I'm sponsored by Scorpion? Can you also say that to Scorpion? Because they apparently don't know that yet in the Speedfliegerforum I didn't write anything Again: the drives with me all run satisfactorily, they just stick to physics. If you proclaim that simply by eliminating the 2 ° camber and side pull (which, by the way, does not necessarily have to be a vector pattern, because the fuselage and tail unit often straighten the jet again), the counter-runner MUST have a higher level of efficiency per se, then you just don't get the essential part, namely how the propellers interact. The counterpart has its justification, but it is not ultimately BETTER. I have proven that and can fly it with half a dozen models at any time. If you came to other results, bring the evidence.



Greetings Rene
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:14 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Hi René just against something misunderstood. There is no counter-runner to buy from Lehner. I mentioned this as an option that you can replace a larger motor with a half-mass one, which saves a lot of weight. With a counter-rotating drive as you built it, you even have to buy an entire motor less and save a lot of weight, e.g. in batteries ect. can be invested. I present it here at times. Maybe then the motors with the air gap coils and improved magnet system that I am currently registering. So first read and then the drum. And Lehner does it how he wants and not like you. And how many drives did you get from R. Okon? Your method of getting other drives is best when they are defective and then disassemble and repair and then present the defect as a constructional error to see and copy what has been done better with the machine. We know the procedure. Against that learning, it is OK to make it bad, not the fine way. Lehner himself measured the motors with competing products to see where he was and to be able to offer a better product. I'll write that here, but you won't find a comparison like this at Lehner.


Have a beautiful Sunday
Christian
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:11 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Ah, point 3: "I didn't say so".
Btw. Your permanent degradation of others' work does not make you more credible. When I see your "super motor" with the airscrews - which every serious e-pilot has only been smoothing for a spatula for 15 years - I know who's tinkering here
After comparing the various concepts (gearbox, 2 motors, your super differential), I made a conscious decision to use the two-motor variant. Here the tuning of the propellers is most efficient and the overall efficiency is highest. It is e.g. the only variant where the rear propeller generates NET thrust and is not only used for torque compensation. I can also remember very well that you agreed to this before you were kicked out of the PC forum.

Getting engines: think about it, I have "got" exactly two engines from him over the 15 or so years that I've known Ralph: a prototype that never made it into series production and a triple ditto from my parts for the vitrine. I bought both. By the way: what is bad about pointing out where there is a need for improvement during a repair? Most of the time, the inclined user can even enter them himself. But of course, you think that Kontronik and co. just make outdated scrap, right? As you postulated here: http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...s-Tipps!/page6. Something like that helps enormously.

Greetings, Rene
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:12 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Hi , yes these are all motors are no different as was presented in the electric model4 / 2000. 12 slot 14/10 pole. No new sheet cuts, no significant improvements anywhere else. And here you can tell a lot of what you got in terms of material. And yes, the double engine can really accelerate the thrust with the rear propeller. That was my opinion at the time, right. Back then I didn't think about saving an entire engine, but that's different today. And of course there is also the possibility to assign more power to the rear propeller in such a drive in order to achieve jet acceleration. You keep developing, what's your problem? You use the Ramoser propellers. You have already written that the propeller blades are not the best, but use them constantly in your counter-rotating drives. Maybe the reason for the unattainable gain? The Graupner propellers are excellent propellers and ideally suited for testing the drive. It was not about a racing engine, but about solving the problem of the drive motor as a counter-rotating reaction drive. Where are your leaf vertebrae now? Oh yes, the developers at Tupolev and Today at Kaman have no idea or only know how the aerodynamics work there. And Volvo's drives are not fancy chic Micki toys, they are a lot more economical and achieve higher speeds than the single propane drives. What you can think of to justify yourself. Hener Lehner 4125 and 4140. You don't know anything about that. Make your own tread with Kuni's problems ect. who can help Kuni. The moderator can remove superfluous items here.



Happy Amps Christian
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:13 AM   #40 (permalink)
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And here you can tell a lot of what you got in terms of material. You also. But if you accuse me of something that is not true, it can be interpreted as a murder How do you plan to get more thrust out of the rear propeller in a system that reactively distributes the torque equally to both propellers? You can only do this on paper, but not in practice, and certainly not with the 80s spoons. Right, the Ramosers are just a compromise. Like everything else in this universe, by the way, the rear propeller should have a different pitch distribution for maximum efficiency. [QUOTE Yes, the developers at Tupolev and Today at Kaman have no idea or ...] [/ QUOTE] Where does it stand? In my post it is very clear why they did it that way. Their systems work within the specifications. Only the intermeshing Kaman drive has nothing to do with a coaxial drive, so you juggle again with fruit compote. Hener Lehner 4125 and 4140. You don't know anything about that. And nobody else. Because there is no information apart from your full-bodied claims.


Greetings, Rene
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