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Electric Motors Winding and Repair Electric Motors Winding and Repair Discussion


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Old 05-18-2020, 07:24 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Continuation of Kuni/Powercroco contradrive thread.


Hi Powercroco,
Bring your broom? We can continue to post Kunipatz and Christians comments about the performance of this contra drive here. The photo is pre copy righted I guess. �� How you like my Erwin-like post malone moves?

@ ChX Attached is the right tool for the job. If it was November we'd eat..

Thanks for your great effort time and patience.
Hubert
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Old 05-18-2020, 09:16 AM   #2 (permalink)
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The mixmaster actually used shafting from the motors up front to the gear box contra prop section in the rear.
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Old 05-18-2020, 09:31 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Bernard Dion's Rutan Voyager



I wonder why u don't see alot of creativity from this group . Very few coaxial speed concepts from them.
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Old 05-18-2020, 09:48 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Thomas Moldtmann Locks down the lehner motor thread in the motor forum

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...k%C3%BCndigung



"Here are the current facts from the manufacturer: The motors are called 4025 and 4040 (41mm stator). Probably available in 2-3 months (delayed by Corona) as a boat engine with water cooling and helicopter engine. Performance data only when the series engines are available with measurements from the manufacturer. I'm closing here. The manufacturer doesn't like speculation!"



What an "op"


No one reads "Mehr speed" anymore. Clearly they are not going to let post with significant information about any other motor brand or contra drive technologies from even a professional background in motor design or mechanical engineering in.
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
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From the multicopter world I don't think accomplishing rigid mounting and different prop speeds with two motors and controllers especially a big deal personally. They do 4 continuously. With telemetry erpm monitoring it knows where they are at all times. Keep it real with yourselves. Without gears the new winding and drone technologies are advanced enough to allow for all types of trimming and triggering events. It can easily do this efficient loading point between the Contra propellers. Fools trip and post the impossibilities because they don't know how. Apparently the synchronized Flettner type rotor drives are just another form of the contra drive technology above small minds.
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Old 05-19-2020, 08:50 AM   #6 (permalink)
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"
I have learned a lot about the american way of

"Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect"


into this thread!


Thank you so much for this!"


Last edited by powercroco; Yesterday at 09:59 AM..

Youre welcomed! What a generalizing and sweeping statement that encompasses all of America and its "way" . I don't represent the American way I represent 1. b.rother o.n h.is o.wn (1BOHO) Get that part straight first.

But then you didn't learn it b4 me till after this.... I learned first a lot about the POWERCROCO way (not the German way) of "Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect" into these thread"s" and post from his friends and him....All of Germany is definitely not represented by you or your peeps silly remarks so I wont do what u just did and hold all of Germany responsible for only U and your friends illustrated trash.


Mehr Speed .... - Seite 2
Lehner 4025/4040 Ankündigung
Wettbewerbsvorschlag 1000 Watt Speedklasse
https://www.rclineforum.de/forum/boa...28-happy-2020/
https://www.rclineforum.de/forum/boa...pole-machines/
https://www.rclineforum.de/forum/boa...e-weihnachten/
https://www.rclineforum.de/forum/boa...och-ein-stern/
https://www.rclineforum.de/forum/boa...-64mm-spinner/


Its all been fun till now?

There are many more right here on the freak(torqstar etc.) and abroad.....the nerve of your post coming across like some victim here considering the wonderful threads your friends started so they could gripe about having to speak in other languages.... English included LOL.


For all this you have obviously been very welcomed the same way..... maybe what they said in german there vs what it translates to here personified that positive spirit u all have? Read it again sam! http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...k%C3%BCndigung



BTW It seems your English is much better today. You insult the intelligence of the moderators and expect what Okon? As if they and the world havent seen your million post aggrandizing in ENGLISH! You're silly and must think only Stevie Wonder frequents your clicks posts. You are right here posting in English. "Brillant"




http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php/784098-Lehner-4025-4040-Ank%C3%BCndigung?p=5024778&viewfull=1#post5024778



Really? LOL!


I thought you left.....


Danke,
Hubert
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:42 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Hi Christian
Here is Lohrings take on the 2 stroke tmotor you showed.

"One more in overly complex two stroke designs with no advantage over a simple tuned pipe, crankcase scavenged engine. Also, the pumped volume under the piston isn't enough to adequately scavenge the cylinder. The design is similar to a recent infamous engine that never lived up to its claimed power."

Lohring Miller

James hasn't seen the post yet. When he does he will expand upon the problems he sees with the design 4 sure or maybe not. Its a little off topic but I think the points been proven in this thread anyway so who cares. Nice how you bring in the IC product as a subtle irritation.

I know what you are doing.... certainly this idea is not "new" or a "speed product" for F3S but its surely no competition for PC's HK's Its harmless so it will stay!! by way of the sanctuary forum director

TTYL
Hubert
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:00 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Chx2
Tell Franz I want to stress him since he spoke. The "reference" motor maker he mentioned has plenty of competition from US. Ask him to ask his manufacturer about Mike Langlois and toolmaker James Allen ( not the pilot) although he's awesome too. He def know about Henry Nelson his LS engines and Aero Racing Engines who currently manufactures them on some of the best equipment in the world. James went in and refined the honing and chroming process etc. James is Henrys brother as I am yours. His relationship wit Ed Kalfus was the same way. The water brake came from Ed and JA expanded on its construction. This is the hydraulic Dyno that Ralph and his friends mouths hang open about. Real engineering from U.S. "strange Americans" in the "American way". LOL

We got something for this group on every level. This is a real ic "speed" product posted.
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:04 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Show Franz JA's all billet .90 cubic that runs at 30,000 and makes 7.2 hp. Andy Brown calls it the 10,000 dollar engine. LOL
Attached is a photo of two of his all billet engines and twin engine gear setup. I think James knows about transmission as well so he will need no sanctuary.
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Old 05-24-2020, 10:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Heck I think the old Align with 132% more copper LRK can do this Mehr Speed requirement anyway. Why would you need to pull max amperage for 35 seconds in a trap anyway.... It doesn't matter if the wire on the motor posted held that it certainly would.



Rm .oo5 ohms
Kv 824
Io 3.27 amps @22.5 volts including radial fan load.
Weight 448.8 grams
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Old 05-24-2020, 02:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Mehr Speed Lehners and such....

Hi everyone,
well there are lively discussions. I can only say that e.g. two boys, then students, went the same way in engineering studies at UNI Munich when they built their version of a sterling engine as a model engine. In a few detours, Dr. Heidelberg heard about it and looked at history. Since he simply found the concept very good, he quickly put the two down and gave them a free hand to develop. So only small machines with 4 and 5 kw were created, then 10 KW as a domestic power plant until then a small series with 30 KW for small industrial plants were created, which we at KIM Krailling ran for a few years. However, since a few years ago a new investor from the USA bought the company and there was no interest in the small power plants, everything was stopped. But at least the two of them managed to design and build some very good Sterling machines that were also able to prove their suitability for everyday use in the KIM. It can also go that way. Today, however, investors are increasingly on the go with screwed purses and don't even look at such projects at all and if there is a sow expensive future analysis and umpteen evaluations and then something unfortunately falls out.
But I definitely see an opportunity for such projects, especially today. It is precisely the possibility of the laser sintering shop that allows the housings that were previously cast to be printed out in one go. For the T engine, however, I shouldn't consider the ship's diesel as a possible target engine, it is really very developed, but the smaller vehicle engines up to 1.5 liters and the even smaller ones should make the savings possible in part. The smaller the motors, the higher these losses due to friction and flow resistance in the overall balance. It is no different with electrical machines. The smallest motors are the most ungrateful. All losses are at the limit, micromotrons have maximum efficiencies that make you shiver, they almost have to glow away when you start up. If it weren't for the elephant-to-mouse law, the mouse would cool off much more heat than the elephant.

Holger, if you are interested in really great model engine tuning, I would recommend you to have a look at the engines at www.Intelwaters.com. Especially there the engines from Jim Allen, whom I have known for decades and who, as a materials scientist in engine construction, builds very nice, pure racing engines with mostly 15 cc.
Alone his series of 15ccm housings made of aluminum, cast in aluminum and steel and the test series on his test benches. And and and. I don't really understand why this doesn't exist anymore. These Americans are doing this now and today. You have to register there for the photo albums ect. to be able to see.

As I find time, I will talk about the T Motor to my neighbor, who worked in BMW in the development of racing engines and has been giving pensioners for half a year. Should actually have time for gimmicks.

Happy Amps Christian.
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Old 05-24-2020, 02:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Lehners for speed flying Continued

Moved to lehner thread.
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Old 05-24-2020, 02:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default CL's Contra Concepts


How long before it's locked CL?


BTW Franz does not have to be an IW member to see Jims motor
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Old 05-29-2020, 05:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default All Billet IC marine engines from Toolmaker/ME James Allen


Mehr Speed
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Old 05-31-2020, 05:49 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Elysium
Cant hate on this though. From all I've seen on the market this is rather unique. I like this.


Hubert
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Old 06-04-2020, 11:26 AM   #16 (permalink)
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"I think so too.
386Amps and round about 21,5kW for an 1,1kg motor......
I personally never had such log in my career."
~powercroco~


You never had a controller that good in your career.
TTYS

Hubert
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Old 06-04-2020, 11:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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If this is the case you'd love two of these contra-drive'd or in a tandem. At 10 s lipo it can do this 21kW at approx 810 grams for the two machines.


U see Powercroco? There is still space for another turn in singularly wound coils of 13 AWG. I guess now you also know that if the rotors are mechanically locked in pole alignment in a tandem the two motors could be serially connected and run at higher voltages of one inverter.
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Old 06-07-2020, 06:52 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Hi Ralp,
for true, this is not the best motor you have ever build. Remember that your 4225 motor reached 8 newton trust per square centimeter stator jacket surface 8 years ago. This big motor has only 6,5 newton trust per square centimeter of the stator jacket surface. So much less , a step backward. Normaly a bigger motor can rise the trust. With 8 newton this motor would do 24,7 at 15000 rpm. Not bad but with the right stator plate shape and surface mount magnets 12 newton are no problem and with a flux flow enhancing magnetsystem 16 newton are the sumit , ok need higher copper filling and advanced air cooling if it should stay for a longer runtime. Todays busses drives can stay such torque unlimited .
Short calculation: 5 cm dia ˋpi x 5 cm length x 6,5 newton x radius of the stator = 12,7 Newtonmeter torque. at 16000 rpm we get 21,3 kw power. So all,fit right, no wonder motor , only bigger.

Happy Amps Christian
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Old 06-08-2020, 07:52 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Thanks for this information Christian and you can see from the big birds log that the APD already takes 400 amperes with no problem and we see from Okons motor terminals of 4 X 1.5 mm conductors can carry it.

You see Ralph? Your current carry concerns for driving my Neu 1-3 turn motors are no issues then.



Since we know the Delta LRK has a higher power density and has more fill potential than a DLRK feed a 3 tooth delta with a 3 tooth wye for a fun 5020 LRK to compare at a little less than half its size. If we know we can reduce the 2 pole harmonic with the Y-D serial connection or the option in dshot to run low pass or notch filtering of course we can expect that there is room for improvement that easy to implement. Each 3 tooth motor has all the teeth wound the same way. Arbitrarily if the wye coils were all CW then all the deltas would be CCW.



Tractionsbruder,
Hubert
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Old 06-08-2020, 11:36 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Dr. Daoud OUAMARA gives a lesson on calculating magnet losses

Maybe you can actually find the number first using his teachings then reduce it. The prop cal are useless for this. An IR temp gun or FLIR aimed the rotor for a loaded run of controlled duration would also be a better indication of loss improvement in the pm structure. Ill show you how easy this is to measure in the y-d thread.


Regards,
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