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Old 07-27-2020, 01:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default What's more powerful in a 700 helicopter ? 4525 or 4530 ?

Hi, I have a Egodrift 4525HT-550 motor in one 700 helicopter and a Egodrift 4530HS-510 in another 700 helicopter. On paper the 4525HT puts out more power. Is this correct? Or would the 4530 motor have more instantaneous torque and more power because of the bigger stator ?
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Old 07-27-2020, 02:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The motor will only give you what you are capable of extracting from it
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Old 07-27-2020, 02:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuildFlyCrashRepeat View Post
The motor will only give you what you are capable of extracting from it
Spot on. An electric motor will only supply the power it needs to drive the load placed on it. Just because a motor is rated at (say) 1.21 gigawatts doesnt mean that it will produce 1.21 gigawatts in any specific application. 1.21 gigawatts is just what the manufacturer has decided is it's maximum safe rating. Like battery C rating there are no standard rules for the power rating of hobby grade motors, so I take the claims with a pinch of salt.

But ultimately, yes, if you loaded both motor up to the point of failure you would normally expect the larger/heavier motor to be able to supply more power without overheating (all other things being equal).
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Old 07-27-2020, 02:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The governor on your heli is like the cruse control in your car. On flat ground the peak power won’t matter just whatever it takes to spin the head or the wheels.

The 4530 is a bigger motor, in stator size and ‘Motor Constant’ what this means in practical terms is that you can get more power efficiently out of the bigger motor. For the same load the bigger motor will be cooler...
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Old 07-27-2020, 04:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JimJW View Post
The governor on your heli is like the cruse control in your car. On flat ground the peak power won’t matter just whatever it takes to spin the head or the wheels.

The 4530 is a bigger motor, in stator size and ‘Motor Constant’ what this means in practical terms is that you can get more power efficiently out of the bigger motor. For the same load the bigger motor will be cooler...
The only other thing to keep in mind is that the OP is comparing different motors, in terms of design I mean, one is HT and the other is HS. While I’m not exactly sure what the actual difference is, the high torque (HT) normally puts out more power than the high speed (HS). If you compared a 4025HT to a 4030HT, as mentioned above, you’d have more headroom with the latter.
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Old 07-27-2020, 05:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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So all things being equal the 4530 should deliver more power and torque ?
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Old 07-27-2020, 06:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Freeskiken View Post
So all things being equal the 4530 should deliver more power and torque ?
my understanding is that all things being equal they would deliver the same power, but the smaller one would have less headroom, and probably operate a little hotter... I think there are others here more knowledgeable than me though, maybe they can chime in...
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:18 AM   #8 (permalink)
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From my past experience using different motors in the same helicopter in more than once. I tried this on a 766 and a E5SS. When I put a motor on with a bigger stator I had a very noticeable amount of more power. I have a selection of motors.

On my 766 I had a motor that had a 4535 stator first, then a 4541 stator. There was a very noticeable amount of increase in power and less flight time.

Then on my E5SS I had a 4035 stator motor, then a 4530 stator, and now 4525 stator. Each time I notice the difference in power either up or down.

On the E5SS with the 4530 stator motor it was a rocket. I had to use different batteries to not go into low voltage cut off. I ended up using HK Panther Graphene to get enough power.

So stator size does make a difference in power. There is also a point if you put too big a motor on that weight becomes a factor and I don’t like the way the helicopter feels in the air.

If you look at say a 4035 stator vs a 4530 as an example there is a huge difference in power.

Obviously there is also more to it than just stator size. Also design plays a factor in cooling, efficiency and power.
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Old 07-28-2020, 01:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Turning blades at a certain RPM and using a certain pitch requires a certain power. In fact you can calculate it:

Power = (Rotor Constant) x (Blade pitch in feet) x ((RPMs/1,000) to the 3rd*power) x (rotor diameter in feet to the 4th*power)

Nowhere in that formula does the motor feature, because it's nothing to do with it. To drive a certain rotor at a certain RPM and certain pitch needs a certain power. Providing you use a motor capable of delivering that power then you dont get any more power by fitting a bigger motor.

The only way you increase power is by increasing one of the variables in the formula:
  • Blade constant (influenced by blade chord and design)
  • Pitch
  • RPM
  • Diameter
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Old 07-28-2020, 03:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The reality is that we don’t have unlimited power to spin them rotors. Increase the pitch, spin the head faster, and eventually you can pull more that the power system can deliver.

The OPs question is a good one. Maybe Vince (of Egodrift fame) can weigh in on why the rating of the HT motor shows it can handle more amps (and thus more power) than its larger HS brother. 🙂
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Old 07-28-2020, 03:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I am out flying two 700 helis with these motors today back to back. I thought I would be able to say the 4530 had more power. But I dont think so. I think the specs are correct. The 4525HT feels more powerful. But very slight difference. Both have good power. Like you say more things involved than the motor. Pitch, rpm, weight, blade size. Etc.

I would like to try the 4530HT motor.
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Old 07-28-2020, 06:38 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Vincent came on and gave explanations of the HS vs HT in a different thread. Maybe it answers some of the questions.

HS vs HT https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=852773



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Old 07-28-2020, 08:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Thanks !!!
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Old 07-29-2020, 01:10 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeskiken View Post
I am out flying two 700 helis with these motors today back to back. I thought I would be able to say the 4530 had more power. But I dont think so. I think the specs are correct. The 4525HT feels more powerful. But very slight difference. Both have good power. Like you say more things involved than the motor. Pitch, rpm, weight, blade size. Etc.

I would like to try the 4530HT motor.
So when you did this testing how did you decide which had more power?..

The only way to do that is to increase RPM and/or pitch until one motor starts bogging down (i.e. it can no longer supply enough power to meet the demanded load).. Or it overheats.

If you flew both at the same RPM and same pitch and if both didnt bog down, then the power both were producing was identical... period. The motor can only produce the power that the rotor requires.
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Old 07-29-2020, 06:30 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoggie View Post
...If you flew both at the same RPM and same pitch and if both didnt bog down, then the power both were producing was identical... period. The motor can only produce the power that the rotor requires.
fully agree with that. but: then it comes down to efficiency (that may drop when one motor goes nearer to its limits)... you'll notice the delta in motor temps after landing (but anyhow hard to fly 2x sooo identical) and the rest should be visible in the logs: rpm stability, amps draw and Esc PWM... only here you can see if there is really no bogging or if one motor is starting to waste 200Amps for no result (other than heating itself)

if the specs are +/- real (and i have no doubt on this with Egodrift motors)... i would expect very little to no delta between those 2 motors. the 4525 being a little lighter....

Ciao
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Old 07-29-2020, 11:10 AM   #16 (permalink)
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The advantage of a slightly larger motor is heat dissipation
Go too large and you suffer a weight penalty.

If you can log the amps you hit and the average then you can see how efficient your system is.
It all depends on how hard you fly
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Old 07-29-2020, 03:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I uploaded the flight logs. Kind of surprised me.

I tried to upload the flight graphs but could not. I tried a couple of different ways but it would not let me.

The Synergy 696 with the 4525HT motor was drawing 116A, 4814W

The Soxos Strike 7 with the 4530HS motor was drawing 133.6A, 5611W

Mind you these are just peaks. Most of the time there flying around at 30 - 70 amps. I thought it was the other way around. My perception of what is more powerful is not very scientific and not correct. I will have to fly some more and see what the logs look like. It would probably help if the helicopters were exactly the same. The Synergy 696 has Rail 696 blades and the Soxos Strike 7 has 1St. 690 blades. They are both pretty close in weight Synergy 696 @ 8.56 lbs - 12.02 lbs. w/ 2 Gens Ace 6S 5000mah 45C packs. Soxos Srike [email protected] 8.62 lbs. - 12.09 lbs. w/ 2 Gens Ace 6S 5000mah 45C packs.
Attached Files
File Type: txt Strike 7 4530HS .txt (40.1 KB, 14 views)
File Type: txt Synergy 696 4525HT .txt (39.8 KB, 14 views)
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Old 07-29-2020, 04:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Here is my reply from Vincent about these motors.

All things being equal (stator diameter, magnets, winding, etc.), the bigger (or let's better say: "higher") stator (just like the bigger motor in a car) will produce more power. But: The HT and HS motors are very different, and serve a different purpose. While the HS motor is designed to give you a better balance of power and flight time, the (45xx) HT motors are designed to trade some efficiency for a maximum power output.

The 4525HT fits somewhat in between the 4530HS and the 4530HT, as it is built the same way as the 4530HT, but offers some weight reduction due to the 4525 stator size, which helps to improve flight time a little. It does, however, require good pitch control, as it is not as endlessly forgiving as the 4530 models.

Hope this helps and

best regards

Vincent
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:01 AM   #19 (permalink)
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the 4530 ht is a beast. Its by far the most powerful motor made to date. I love egodrift motors. Its all I use now.
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:12 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
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the 4530 ht is a beast. Its by far the most powerful motor made to date. I love egodrift motors. Its all I use now.
Um. Okay
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