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Kontronik Drives Jazz and Jive ESC's and other Kontronik equipment support


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Old 09-21-2020, 09:46 PM   #21 (permalink)
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IF you are talking about a 140HV, then by the time you reach step 3, you'll know if you need to update its firmware. I did not pull my progunit for my 140HV.

Mine can be stick programmed to work with Neo or Futaba out of the box so I guess it has the latest firmware, probably yours has too.

The other function that your progunit provides, apart from updating firmware, is to set up your ESC for BEC voltage, gear ratio, pole count, capacity limit, etc.

My bluetooth module does exactly this part without the need of a PC, and my bluetooth module has been connecting to my Kontronik ESC very reliably, including this Kolibri. Even though it is a nice to have item, it is quite handy when needed in the flying field.
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Old 09-21-2020, 09:56 PM   #22 (permalink)
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@Chris.C is your KONTRONIK Bluetooth module permanently mounted to model or do you only connect it when necessary?
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Old 09-22-2020, 12:06 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3D Dave View Post

6) Do fresh model setup on NEO/V-Control, selecting Kontronik Kolibri as the ESC (if that's a selection choice on the original V-Control)



If that's not the correct order (or I missed something), someone please let me know. I plan to program it sometime this week.

Thanks!

My VControl is the Classic, not the Touch. Last time I did a K ESC setup, there was no KOLIBRI option, so I chose KOSMIK and it worked.
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Old 09-22-2020, 06:50 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3D Dave View Post
Thanks Steve.

I now have one mounted on my Diabolo 700UL and a ProgUNIT in the package waiting to be opened

It's going to be a couple weeks until I get to actually try it out in flight though.

My next steps (if I have them correct) are:

1) Download the ProgUNIT application and ProgUNIT firmware update

2) Update ProgUNIT firmware

3) Connect the Kolibri to the ProgUNIT and update the Kolibri firmware

4) Go through the Kolibri settings using the ProgUNIT and make sure it's set for V-Control telemetry

5) Set BEC voltage to 6v

6) Do fresh model setup on NEO/V-Control, selecting Kontronik Kolibri as the ESC (if that's a selection choice on the original V-Control)



If that's not the correct order (or I missed something), someone please let me know. I plan to program it sometime this week.

Thanks!
The most important thing to always remember when updating the firmware on the ESC is to never disconnect the cable while a firmware update is in progress. When I do my any firmware updates on any devices I make sure to close all the applications running on the machine and make sure the PC cannot go into sleep or hibernate mode.

It's unlikely you will need to do steps 1 & 2. The latest ProgUNIT firmware is v1.0 which should come with the ProgUnit.

Follow the detailed instructions in the KOLIBRI section on the download page:
https://www.kontronik.com/en/downloads.html

After the firmware update is complete do a mode 1 reset and then program the stickway in mode 4.

Then connect the ProgUNIT again and setup the necessary parameters (BEC voltage, etc.) in K-KONFIG.
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Old 09-22-2020, 08:38 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Chris, yes... it's the 140 HV.

Part of the reason I bought the ProgUNIT was so that I could avoid stick programming. That was always a bit challenging with my Jives (trying to count the beeps/spaces etc. through multiple menus). I was never 100% sure the correct settings were saved.

I also want to change the BEC voltage to 6v (or maybe even 7.2)

I'm not sure I want to mess with gear ratio, pole count, capacity limit, etc through the ProgUNIT. I thought I'd just need to enter that info. into my V-Control during setup.

The Bluetooth sounded interesting, but Peter couldn't get his to work with iOS (what I'd be using), so I didn't want to take a chance.

The only thing I'm really changing once it a while (at the field) are my headspeeds. Changing those are a piece of cake with V-Bar gov. (3 banks) on the V-Control, so hopefully Kolibri (set to V-Bar gov.) will be no different.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris.C View Post
IF you are talking about a 140HV, then by the time you reach step 3, you'll know if you need to update its firmware. I did not pull my progunit for my 140HV.

Mine can be stick programmed to work with Neo or Futaba out of the box so I guess it has the latest firmware, probably yours has too.

The other function that your progunit provides, apart from updating firmware, is to set up your ESC for BEC voltage, gear ratio, pole count, capacity limit, etc.

My bluetooth module does exactly this part without the need of a PC, and my bluetooth module has been connecting to my Kontronik ESC very reliably, including this Kolibri. Even though it is a nice to have item, it is quite handy when needed in the flying field.
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Old 09-22-2020, 08:42 PM   #26 (permalink)
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My V-Control is the classic too.

I was hoping there would be a Kolibri option, but if not, at least I know I can use the Kosmik option.

Maybe Kolibri was added in a recent classic V-Control firmware update?

Thanks for letting me know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipper76 View Post
My VControl is the Classic, not the Touch. Last time I did a K ESC setup, there was no KOLIBRI option, so I chose KOSMIK and it worked.
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Old 09-22-2020, 08:59 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Thanks Ace.

I'm not sure I remember how to get the classic V-Control into the mode for stick control of throttle. IIRC, it was done automatically when I was in ESC programming on the V-Control.

On the Kolibri, I was going to do a mode 1 reset, but I didn't know I had to do a mode 4 selection too.

I was going to run the Kolibri in external "V-Bar gov" mode, which I thought was part of mode 8 (Telemetry Port 1).

So I thought I'd just do mode 1, then mode 8 (8 beeps) then slide the throttle to full and wait for 5 beeps in a row for Mikado protocol, then slide the throttle to 0 and wait for conformation.

Can you tell me what the confirmation sounds like?


Am I understanding this correctly?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Dude View Post
The most important thing to always remember when updating the firmware on the ESC is to never disconnect the cable while a firmware update is in progress. When I do my any firmware updates on any devices I make sure to close all the applications running on the machine and make sure the PC cannot go into sleep or hibernate mode.

It's unlikely you will need to do steps 1 & 2. The latest ProgUNIT firmware is v1.0 which should come with the ProgUnit.

Follow the detailed instructions in the KOLIBRI section on the download page:
https://www.kontronik.com/en/downloads.html

After the firmware update is complete do a mode 1 reset and then program the stickway in mode 4.

Then connect the ProgUNIT again and setup the necessary parameters (BEC voltage, etc.) in K-KONFIG.
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Old 09-22-2020, 09:51 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3D Dave View Post
My V-Control is the classic too.

I was hoping there would be a Kolibri option, but if not, at least I know I can use the Kosmik option.

Maybe Kolibri was added in a recent classic V-Control firmware update?

Thanks for letting me know.
The ESC wizards in the VBC is just a way of getting direct stick control to allow stick programming. Unless it is one of the integrated ESCs then the wizard does nothing to your settings.

The wizard has been removed in the VBCt.
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Old 09-22-2020, 09:52 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3D Dave View Post
Thanks Ace.

I'm not sure I remember how to get the classic V-Control into the mode for stick control of throttle. IIRC, it was done automatically when I was in ESC programming on the V-Control.

On the Kolibri, I was going to do a mode 1 reset, but I didn't know I had to do a mode 4 selection too.

I was going to run the Kolibri in external "V-Bar gov" mode, which I thought was part of mode 8 (Telemetry Port 1).

So I thought I'd just do mode 1, then mode 8 (8 beeps) then slide the throttle to full and wait for 5 beeps in a row for Mikado protocol, then slide the throttle to 0 and wait for conformation.

Can you tell me what the confirmation sounds like?


Am I understanding this correctly?
Cannot run the Kontronik range of ESC on external governor, so MODE 4 has to be programmed. Mode 8 is just to set the telemetry to VBar protocol.
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Old 09-23-2020, 12:09 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinger View Post
Cannot run the Kontronik range of ESC on external governor, so MODE 4 has to be programmed. Mode 8 is just to set the telemetry to VBar protocol.

That's correct, you probably had this on the Jives Dave, if you remember, you're going to set "ESC Output", and you can look at the rpm achieved on your VBC... after a while you'll know what range of output gives you what range of rpm, real easy...


For mode 1 & 4 programming, I watched this video:


Kontronik PC-Software programmierung und Update (8 min 11 sec)



Also, regarding your BEC voltage, I did as recommended by KONTRONIK (check if your servos allow for this) and run a 2S Lipo in paralell (no backup guard or buffer pack), so I set my BEC to 8V.
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Old 09-23-2020, 12:57 AM   #31 (permalink)
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@ACE, I do not fix my bluetooth module in my heli, just plug it in when needed. I use my iphone to connect it as well.

After I paired my bluetooth to my phone according to the manual, then everytime I want to use it, I plug it into the sensor port(in my 140HV, it is the port for the fan), connect the esc to the main batteries, then Vcontrol binds successfully, turn on bluetooth function in my iphone, without waiting it to connect, i open the Kontronik APP, at that time, i'll see "Connecting XXX" and followed by "XXX connected".

This happens 9 out of 10 times. when that only 1 time happens, I would remove the unnecessary Bluetooth connections that sitting on my phone and then cycle its power.

Hope this helps.
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Old 09-23-2020, 10:45 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I guess I have to try using my Bluetooth Module again! thanks
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Old 09-23-2020, 01:28 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Does anyone know where this esc is in stock? I would like to try one.
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Old 09-23-2020, 02:04 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daboxe View Post
Does anyone know where this esc is in stock? I would like to try one.
PeakAircraft.com should have it in stock.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:18 PM   #35 (permalink)
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So by this, I assume I don't use the ESC wizard at all?

What do I choose for ESC setup then... "Other"?

I'm still a little confused.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinger View Post
The ESC wizards in the VBC is just a way of getting direct stick control to allow stick programming. Unless it is one of the integrated ESCs then the wizard does nothing to your settings.

The wizard has been removed in the VBCt.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:22 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Ok, I get that part now. I was thinking I could run the Kolibri in external gov. mode and use V-Bar gov.

That's how I ran my HeliJive 120 (External gov. mode 8)

I guess it really is the only Kontronik ESC that will let you use an external gov.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinger View Post
Cannot run the Kontronik range of ESC on external governor, so MODE 4 has to be programmed. Mode 8 is just to set the telemetry to VBar protocol.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:40 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Yes, my Jive 100LV was internal gov. only. My Helijive I had configured to run external gov. mode 8 (for V-Bar gov).

Originally these were set up on a 1st gen DX7. Then in 2015, I re-set them up on my V-control.

Thanks for the video. I watched it but I don't know German. Watching what he did and catching a few key words, it did help a bit.

I know some guys run separate 2s lipo packs with their Kontronik ESC's for back up, but I've never wanted to. I did however, start using an R2 buffer capacitor just in case. It didn't help me in the last crash though as the whole ESC failed at low altitude.

My servos are MKS HBL665's and HBL880 on the tail.

I think my last setup had the ESC's BEC set to 7.2v (there was some issue with going higher).

Maybe this time I should put a 2s lipo on there. If I utilized one, what size would you recommend that would enable me to have (8-10) 6 minute flights without needing to recharge it?

Actually, if the battery is really used for back-up only, I could probably get away with a 400-800mAh lipo... yes?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipper76 View Post
That's correct, you probably had this on the Jives Dave, if you remember, you're going to set "ESC Output", and you can look at the rpm achieved on your VBC... after a while you'll know what range of output gives you what range of rpm, real easy...

For mode 1 & 4 programming, I watched this video:

https://youtu.be/mDLLCdqa0p0

Also, regarding your BEC voltage, I did as recommended by KONTRONIK (check if your servos allow for this) and run a 2S Lipo in paralell (no backup guard or buffer pack), so I set my BEC to 8V.
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:16 PM   #38 (permalink)
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The old HeliJive was the only Kontronik ESC ever to support external governor. After that Kontronik abandoned idea as their internal governor is just as good.

For a 700 size helicopter a 400mAh pack is more than enough as a backup.
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:41 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Compare my Kolibri to JivePro 120 or Kosmik 160, the max BEC current improved a bit but I just have a few flights with it so far. One thing I notice is that, the max current seems to be lower with my 140HV. I have 2 Diabolo BE, the equipment on-board are exactly the same except the other one is with a JivePro 120, doing basically the same routine in the air.

Back to the BEC topic, I use R2 before. It is simple to install, light weight but just enough for autorotation if the BEC/ESC fails(my experience). I now use 2S LiPo for back up in all of my helicopters.

Next question is about back up battery size. This question depends very much on the servos on-board. I do not have experience with MKS servos, only Futaba and JR.

With Vcontrol and Telme telemetry, we don't have the feedback on BEC current, only BEC voltage so I don't know what is the max BEC current in-flight. I set up an alarm in my Vcontrol when the BEC voltage in-flight drops below 7.7V(for example), it gives me warning. BTW, I set my BEC voltage to 8V.

A larger capacity of LiPo battery together with capacitor can maintain relatively stable BEC voltage level when current demanding servos are in use.

In my case, with Futaba servos, BLS272 or BLS275, a 800mAH LiPo should be enough. With the new HPS series servos, I put 1.5AH LiPo with capacitor because the alarm would definitely go-off a few times in-flight with 800mAH LiPo, sometimes even when my heli was doing hovering maneuvers.

There is an article in Vstabi about helicopter electronics. It is a good read.
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Old 09-24-2020, 01:38 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3D Dave View Post
Thanks for the video. I watched it but I don't know German. Watching what he did and catching a few key words, it did help a bit.

My servos are MKS HBL665's and HBL880 on the tail.

Maybe this time I should put a 2s lipo on there. If I utilized one, what size would you recommend that would enable me to have (8-10) 6 minute flights without needing to recharge it?

Actually, if the battery is really used for back-up only, I could probably get away with a 400-800mAh lipo... yes?

Dave, yeah, even without knowing German, you can pause the video at every step so you can follow his beeps and menus on the Kolibri & VBC Classic exactly, that's what I did and it worked.


Regarding the 2S Lipo, if you set your BEC to 8V, the BEC will automatically keep the battery at 8V (you can manually check and balance if needed every 2 months or so), all you need to to is remember to plug the battery before flying and unplug it afterwards. Mine stays balanced too, so works great. Having this setup also comes in handy when you need to do updates on your NEO, much better than a backup guard of buffer pack for that...



You'll be in good hands ESC wise this time, I don't think you'll run into any reliability issues now, even after hundreds (if not thousands) of flights... this has been my experience at least.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinger View Post
The old HeliJive was the only Kontronik ESC ever to support external governor. After that Kontronik abandoned idea as their internal governor is just as good.

For a 700 size helicopter a 400mAh pack is more than enough as a backup.

I agree with Peter on both points here: the governor is equal or better than a FBL one, and 400mAh is enough, I actually run a 325mAh 70C (whatever that rating means in real life, probably 20C, hahaha) 2S as a backup for a K200 on my 700, and same battery for a K140 on my 550.





@Chris C: The governor algorithm (and the microprocessor used to process this data) is different from the Jive Pro to the Kolibri 140, that's why you feel a difference. The governor of the Kolibri is the same as the Kosmik series.


Regarding BEC current information, using either Kosmik with Mikado TelMe or the Kolibri series ESCs, I've seen max BEC Amp info written on the VBC flight log, just go to your current log (or archives if model has been disconnected), and you'll see 2 lines inserted by the KONTRONIK ESC, first one is for ESC data, and the second is for BEC.



I've never seen a graph for BEC data every second of the flight, maybe it is accessible with the Data Explorer Software, but my understanding is that this software works with the Kosmik but not the Kolibri... someone please correct me here if this is mistaken...
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