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SAB Goblin 630/700/770 SAB Heli Division 630/700/770 - Goblin Helicopters Factory Support


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Old 01-04-2021, 10:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Kraken Build NEEEEED HELP

What's goin on pilots ?! Hope the first of the year is treating you all well

So guys, this is not my first time flying but it has been over a decade since I've been able to put time into this hobby... I flew planes.. & I've only buddy trained some while the bird was in the air lol

Long story short, I got a greatttt Christmas deal on an orange Kraken 700 kit (they're simply beautiful).

The problem is I am SO outdated and overwhelmed with getting the correct electronics for my bird while having (TX) possibilities of flying a multirotor or planes occasionally.

I'm here to let ya guys know what parts I already have and I'm also here in need of the communities help picking parts to get this bird in the air!

So my current parts are

The Kraken Kit
Egodrift TENGU 4530HT / 550KV
Hobbywing 200A ESC (Should I buy the module for it?)
Demon AXON FBL (heard it was good but, I don't see a lot of people using it, also do they work with JETI/other computer remotes? Should I sell it and conside a new one?)

I am in need for suggestion and opinions for any high grade parts to complete this build batts, servos, telemetry modules, rx, etc.... I have been looking into Jeti's and high end radios. I simply cannot find reliable info, it seems to be all outdated and I'd like current and futureproof parts.

Cost is not much of a concern in this build; I'd like to buy once cry once. And I understand she will go down but I need confidence in these parts. I'd also like the trans to work with sims.

Bless you all,

~ T
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Old 01-05-2021, 06:42 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Don't know much about the Kraken, but Vcontrol touch (https://shop.mikadousa.com/VBar-Control-_c_800.html) + VBAR NEO FBL (https://shop.mikadousa.com/VBar_c_18.html) are a good choice. You can use it to control planes and multirotors as well, but most don't I think. As for servos, I don't know as I don't have a Kraken. The xpert r2 (https://shop.mikadousa.com/Xpert-RC-...vo_p_1826.html) and r2t (tail - https://www.amainhobbies.com/xpert-r...02t-hv/p638905) work well on my oxy 5 , however. As for ESC, I prefer YGE (https://www.amainhobbies.com/yge-205...vt-bec/p895623) but a lot of people use hobby wing also. Motor looks fine to me, but again, I don't own a kraken. so I don't know for sure on the components.
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Old 01-05-2021, 09:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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If I read your post correctly you're not a ton of heli experience, forgive me for asking but did you fly comfortably helis 10 years ago ? If so great if not great.

* If you're not comfortable flying all the basics on the simulator, start simming this is step 1. Choose a sim that works for you, I'm using accurc.

* Consider getting a smaller cheaper heli to practice with

* Now for you're kraken. 4530-550HT will bend space and time, not sure you need that much motor if you haven't flown in 10 years. Its not too late to cut your losses and move into a neo and a vcontrol. Nothing wrong with the other systems, but vcontrol is just so easy, more time spent enjoying you're kraken !
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Old 01-05-2021, 10:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The 4530 motor choice is good, although not likely that you needed the HT (high torque) version. The 4530HS would have been a better option, but if you have the HT, no harm, no foul using it. I just think you could have saved the extra cost, that's all. It is an exceptionally powerful motor, but you should still be able to fly normally with it.

The HW200 is a good choice also, but not sure what module you refer to unless it is the wifi module? I've only ever used the HW Program Box. I think they both serve the same purpose, so take your pick.

The Demon Axon from what I have heard is exceptional. It does work with Jeti with full integration and telemetry. Jeti will work with many FBL choices and can fly multi-platform, planks, Jets, etc. Spektrum may also work for you. No telemetry modules needed for the Axon, but would check in that sub-forum to be certain. It should be able to connect and receive telem data from the HW200. Jeti is an outstanding tx. Not at all difficult to learn and the integration and telemetry options are exceptional. I would look into the DS12.

There are several servos that will work but it does need Standard sized servos. Going with lower cost KSTs will work just fine or Xpert, MKS, etc, if you wanted what I would call a more premium choices. Performance-wise, not too much difference between lower and higher cost servos.

For packs, I'd look into HRB 5000s. Best bang for the price and they are awesome in my experience.

Overall, your entry back into the hobby seems to be a pretty high expense with the choices. That's cool if you planned to stay with it. Nothing wrong with buying high-end, just might not be the best if you are on the fence for being committed to it.
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Old 01-10-2021, 09:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Question BUILD UPDATE

Hey y'all,

First off, I wanted to thank you all for your input towards the build and opinions on the parts I had already purchased.

Secondly, after reading your guys thoughts I did some research and have decided to change lanes...

Update on the build:

I am in the process of returning the AXON FBL to HeliDirect... With that being said, I went over to Mikado and am awaiting some goodies. I figured I should build around the TX more before some other things. Parts are pricey, that's okay as long as they are made with proper material and go through a nice quality control.

I purchased,

• VBar Control Touch, black-neon yellow
• Carbon VControl Hard-Case
• VBar NEO VLink 6.1 Express - Neon Yellow
• Airspeed/Altitude Sensor
• VControl Current/Voltage Sensor
• VControl Battery ID Senso
• VControl Battery ID Tags
• VControl Temperature Sensor
• Stick/Knob-Set metallic gold
• VSim, wireless simulator interface

I came to to conclusion the other day that I am a little further away from getting the bird in the air than I thought lol. One of you had asked about my confidence in flight....do I think I could do it? Yes....Do I think I should try on a bird this expensive first without even simming... Nope.... lol

I got all of this to start simming (thinking Accurc or RF?) while I research and look more into batteries, servos, any other cool telemetry options??

The servos that keep pulling at me are the KST X20 V2.0. But is this me cheaping out on the build?? Or do I ballout on something like the Xpert KD1?? I clearly cannot fly like Kyle Stacy so I'm mainly looking for reliability, I can't push my bird to the extremes yet.

I'm not sure where to start as far as batteries but the 14s 70C 5100mah Mania X on Mikado caught my eye...Any other suggestions in that category? Would also like to do as much SOLDERLESS as possible

As I am trying to wrap my thoughts up, my last few questions would be, what sized pulleys should I run? And is there anything I could be forgetting? I still need to get all the supplies to build this kit... Lost my hobby tools in a move.

Thanks for all the help and input, I truly do take it all into consideration and look forward to someday getting this kit in the air
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Old 01-11-2021, 03:44 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Talking DECISIONS WERE MADE

Tonight I sat down and made some decisions based on the knowledge I have gained reading in the past few weeks.

I posted a comment earlier asking suggestions on some parts. I went ahead and bought a few without input so therefore I would like your opinions/tips on my decision on parts for this build

I first bought all the Grease/Lubes/Bonds...tools I didn't already have...Here's what I picked, this is the most updated part list as a whole. So I am asking what's missing, what is wrong, just your input.. Thanks

• Tx/telemetry: Specs listed above
• FBL System: VBar Neo vlink Pro
• Motor: Egodrift 4530HT / 550kv
• Pinion: ?
• Target Headspeed(s): Need suggestions? Thinking 18-2k?
• ESC: Hobbywing 200A V4.1
• Governor: Should be included with esc?
• BEC: Need suggestions
• RX Pack: Need suggestions
• Cyclic Servos: Xpert R2
• Tail Servo: Xpert R2T
• Main Blades: SAB 690
• Tail Blades: SAB Stock 115
• Lipos: ??HRB??Is the discharge 70C-100C range noticable? Need suggestions


Anything suggestions on gearing? I still need batts & charger, looking at the solderless options but will use some solder connections if needed?
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Old 01-11-2021, 06:29 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Dinero View Post
I purchased,

• VBar Control Touch, black-neon yellow
• Carbon VControl Hard-Case
• VBar NEO VLink 6.1 Express - Neon Yellow
• Airspeed/Altitude Sensor
• VControl Current/Voltage Sensor
• VControl Battery ID Senso
• VControl Battery ID Tags
• VControl Temperature Sensor
• Stick/Knob-Set metallic gold
• VSim, wireless simulator interface

I came to to conclusion the other day that I am a little further away from getting the bird in the air than I thought lol. One of you had asked about my confidence in flight....do I think I could do it? Yes....Do I think I should try on a bird this expensive first without even simming... Nope.... lol

I got all of this to start simming (thinking Accurc or RF?) while I research and look more into batteries, servos, any other cool telemetry options??
You don't need:

• Airspeed/Altitude Sensor (only if you really care how fast and how high you are for some reason)
• VControl Current/Voltage Sensor (shouldn't need this depending on what ESC you buy/bought (YGE is the best choice for Vcontrol universe))
• VControl Temperature Sensor (is this electric? I wouldn't think you'd need this. Seems like something you'd want for Nitro)
• VSim, wireless simulator interface (this won't work for most sims I hear)

The battery ID stuff is awesome!

• VControl Battery ID Senso
• VControl Battery ID Tags

For sim, you should look at either AccuRC or Heli-X.

You can plug your Vcontrol into your PC with USB and it automatically becomes a joystick for use in either one of those.

In Heli-X, you can connect your Vcontrol to WiFi (same network your PC is on) and control Heli-X over WiFi. You can download the demo version to test it out. It doesn't seem like it would work but it really does! I'm hoping AccuRC is also able to implement such a thing.
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Old 01-11-2021, 08:22 AM   #8 (permalink)
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The X20 servos are nice. In fact, the whole X-series are outstanding. They are not cheaping out, lol. I would get this:

https://www.amainhobbies.com/kst-x20...-combo/p700417

I think 14S is a bit much unless you plan on headspeeds in the 2400 range, or so. Personally, I think 12S 5000 will suit you just fine and is what most run on it.

For tools, a standard MIP set should do you well. In addition, you will need 3mm and 5mm, but check the manual. Don't forget digital pitch gauge - a RC Logger II will work just fine.
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Old 01-12-2021, 05:36 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I would also advise against going on 14s on a kraken
kit wise there isn't a path to swing anything bigger then 710 ish blades.

in broader sense , 12s to 14s is possible on it 700, it's not the direction one should go in in this day and age for a 3D 700 setup.
iirc : The last (short lived 770 gobby ) was also 'recommended' to be run 12s ( higher KV/12s ) while previous 770 gobby generally ended up 14s on lower KV.

for me : 14s sure ,on anything bigger than 760 blades. Because these heli's can handle the 14s package better,
low KV / big(ger) can motors to keep those big blades going steady with torque rather than with insane headspeeds.
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Old 01-12-2021, 05:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Cool Parts List UPDATE UPDATE - Starting Build This Week

Firstly, I'd like to apologize for how messy this thread is due to me being ignorant on how to edit posts or else I'd just reply/edit op as needed lol. I secondly, want to thank y'all who have given your suggestions and saved me time & money. I have bought some things, returned some things, and completely changed my mind about some parts after hearing from experienced pilots.


Current Parts List

- Mikado VBar Control Touch - White
- Metallic Gold V/Stick/Knob
- Vbar Neo VLink with gold Aluminum case
- Black VBar case
- Battery ID Tags/ VControl Battery ID sensor
- Current/Voltage/Capacity sensor VBar
- VBar Lanyard
- HobbyWing VBar cable
* returned the useless sensors for my setup upon the suggestion I received
- Align AP800 Digital Gauge
- ALIGN Feathering Shaft Wrench
- SAB Swashplate leveler
- HobbyWing LCD Program box
- Xpert R2 Cyclic Servos
- Xpert R2T Tail
- Egodrift Tengu 4530HT / 550kV Motor
- HobbyWing 200A V4.1 ESC
- Kraken Low Side Frame Carbon Fiber Reinforcement Plates
- Have all the tools, lubes, greases, glues, connectors/little shit squared away almost... Just need to pick a battery but will be going solderless connections on a 12S for sure, the battery research I have been doing the past couple days has been exhausting and I feel like I'm treading through muddd as I was reading some comparison charts it seems a lot of people make their own 12S from 2 6S wired in series then rewrap?, please correct me if I'm wrong about this. And plan on running a 2S BEC on the HW ESC in parallel **STILL ACCEPTING SUGGESTIONS IN THIS AREA...
-Stock Main & Rear Blades
- STILL HAVE NO CLUE ON HOW TO CORRECTLY DECIDE THE TOOTH COUNT FOR MAIN AND TAIL ROTOR *Need Help*

I'll drop back in late to see what y'all think and if I should grab anything else.. Think I still need to grab some alum servo arms for the Xperts along with a servo checker and a lipo charger....Anything I'm missing?? Thanks !!
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Old 01-13-2021, 04:48 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Get the SAB servo arms.
You don't have to make 12s sticks, just mount 2 6S on the battery tray and plug together using either male/female single pole connectors on the batteries (but beware you can accidently short your batteries together if not careful) or use a y connection on the esc if using 2 pole connectors.
A 12S pack still needs to unplug to make 2 6S connections for charging anyway.
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Old 01-13-2021, 10:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Howdy,

Sooo after reading more reviews, I went ahead and decided against the alum servo arms and went with your suggestion of the SAB arms

Now as far as batteries; I am still confused as all hell and I'm an electro-mechanical engineer sooo also per your suggestion I did some reading and still didn't make a for-sure decision but I got some an idea and need help with connectors/ couple more questions....

I see a lot of guys going for the Gens Ace 6S 5000 x 2 and then I understand there are a few options when it comes to connections...Here's what I want to do but have some questions to the possibility of it working..

I think I will decide on the two packs to make the 12s myself and save some bucks... I did order the UP6+ as a charger... Now I know the charging ports on it are XT60 so can make the loom/adapter to adjust to my solderless correct? I don't see why not, but I do need help deciding how many I'd need total to make all the connections including converting the batteries to 12s, was hoping to use the rcproplus solderless for for everything as possible even the charging connect (I'm fully capable of doing if I know the right parts).

My other question, now with that charger I got, I cannot for my life find out what balance charging ports it uses and I notice these lipos have different ones per batt... So are they universal up to what 2-8 ports for the balance?

Last question, what connections does my esc use, I having a problem finding the correct one to pair up... the connections for the batt almost look like a servo; is there an adapter/loom for it?

I think other than these batts, correct connections, and waiting on parts; that I should have a full setup ready to fly despite the build/tuning?

Thanks again

Last edited by T Dinero; 01-13-2021 at 10:43 PM.. Reason: left out info
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Old 01-14-2021, 06:50 AM   #13 (permalink)
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xt60 are only capable of 60 amp and as such would probably melt if you try to use them on your kraken.

Your ESC probably doesn't have any connectors just wires ready to solder a connector on (unless its used).

You can find 12s stick packs but its just the manufacturer wiring together two 6s packs and charging a premium for it. no charger charges 12s. I've found the best way is to make a Y connector off my ESC so the batteries are connected in series. At least that was the best way on my oxy5. I didn't have to modify the batteries at all except to add correct connectors.

Balance port on your charger should be just standard. there will be a balance cable hanging out of your batteries. There are different ones for 1-6s. A balance board connects to the charger that has plugs for each.
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Old 01-14-2021, 07:24 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Dinero View Post
Last question, what connections does my esc use, I having a problem finding the correct one to pair up... the connections for the batt almost look like a servo; is there an adapter/loom for it?
Your ESC has several type of connectors. The bullet connectors that will be needed and possibly have to be soldered on by you (depending on brand) are for your motor (3 leads). The cable(s) that have servo type connections run to your FBL and provide power to run it and all your servos. The other 2 wires that usually come with no connector on them already, almost always a red one and a black one, are to hook up to the pack(s).

TBH, if looking at the wires coming off an ESC are a little confusing to you, setting all this up seems like maybe a bit much at your current knowledge level. A 700 is not something that someone who isn't intimately familiar with a heli setup to play around with and may be biting off more than they can chew. This thing can kill you.
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Old 01-14-2021, 08:30 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrman83 View Post
A 700 is not something that someone who isn't intimately familiar with a heli setup to play around with and may be biting off more than they can chew. This thing can kill you.
And/or others...

Anything with Carbon Fiber blades is dangerous. An Oxy2 set on purée can do serious damage. The was a post a while back about a guy who got hit by his own Fireball (with 280mm blades). It sliced the tendon in his arm and he nearly bled to death if not for someone at the field calling for help.

I’m not trying to be a kill joy and I’m sure jrman isn’t either. These things are amazing and fun but also have the potential to be very dangerous.

Please be careful.
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Old 01-14-2021, 09:24 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Its hard for me to tell from his initial post, but it kinda sounds like he used to fly like 10 years ago and is just getting back in. He might be confused as much has changed since then?
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Old 01-14-2021, 02:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Hey y'all just logged on for the day

My reply to @fiddle / my esc is brand new and has wires to be soldered... so I completely understand what you are saying about.. But would it be better to use the Y connector on the esc or something like this "
How to wire a 12S stick pack (2 min 6 sec)
" on the batteries? I know that vid is a 12S pack but I'd assume its the same for 2 6S? Now that you mentioned the 2 6S packs I will more than likely do that, but wasn't completely sure, so thanks for some clarification... I'm also going to look for those balance boards you're talking about

My reply to @jrman/jim - I had some time to open the box of the HW esc and I understand what connections you are talking about I guess I'm overthinking the connections since I've been trying to look at the solderless options (not that I can't solder, I'm actually pretty good at it).. Wasn't sure if I could make all my connections using rcproplus products?

As far as biting off more than I could chew, I mean it's a 700, so yes I am intimidated, as nearly a decade ago everything I flew/buddied/drove was nitro and I've never dipped my toes into lipo/ I 100% know the dangers and have the area to fly without going to my local club... I've been on the HeliX sim the past couple days as well but have left my kraken in the box until ALL my parts have arrived and I like the help you guys have been giving me as I want to do this the correct way the first time lol I know what all the wires mean, just having a hard time picking the correct connectors.

With all that said, my confidence in flying safely is there but my confusion comes when setting this bird up correctly

Also how do I include the 2S with my HW ESC in that connection with my 2 lipos?

Thanks again guys, I'm looking forward to hearing from you all today !

Last edited by T Dinero; 01-14-2021 at 02:41 PM.. Reason: Forgot to ask a question
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Old 01-14-2021, 02:42 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Also @fiddle , what connections do you use for your batts? Thanks man

Btw I just grabbed 2 of these board per your suggestion

* https://www.espritmodel.com/balancin...6s-jst-xh.aspx *
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Old 01-14-2021, 02:48 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The RCProplus connections are pretty straightforward and eliminate use of a y-connector. If by 2S you are referring to power your servos, which type of ESC did you get? With BEC or without? By your listing of it I assumed with BEC. If so, no 2S pack needed to power servos.

Watch this video to understand how connections work with RCPP:

RCPROPLUS Supra X "PRO S" Series connector (7 min 36 sec)
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Old 01-14-2021, 02:53 PM   #20 (permalink)
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@jrman

Thank you! Could I use all those connections for batt/esc/charging using those connectors to come off of an XT60 female to charge? I was hoping I could lol

And yeah I'm using the one listed.. I saw it mentioned the use of a 2S in parallel for BEC, but if it's not needed, then I won't even worry about it lol
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