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Old 03-09-2021, 10:34 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default A request to Brian.

Hi Brian,

Would you have a look at this thread as it deals with the 4651T remote and its operation with a couple of gyros, including the 6250. The guys in trying to identify what was going on found that they could duplicate the issue found in the air while on the bench and the gist of it is that when a signal was lost, but with not enough frames lost or a hold present, the 4651T would generate a fail-safe resulting in the throttle being dropped to zero but it would immediately reconnect. The bench test that duplicated the in-air result was disconnecting the 4651T and reconnecting it. The other standard DSMX remotes were still fully operating and receiving signals. As a control, I disconnected the 9645 while the 4651T was connected and quickly reconnected it with no drop in throttle. What is different about the 4651T that it does this? Thanks.

Don

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=885009
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Old 03-09-2021, 11:52 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I read the whole thread and it sounds like itís worth it to test this myself (both signal loss and plain power loss), perhaps over the weekend. My setup would be: HW130A, FC6250HX, 9745 & 4651T.


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Old 03-09-2021, 07:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default A request to Brian.

Sorry, but I could not wait until the weekend. I just tested both issues on the HW130, FC6250HX, 9745, 4651T combo with a 6S 5000.

When I disconnect the 4651T while the motor (Xnova 4025-1120) is running, and then I reconnect it, I get like a micro stutter in the motor rpm and the servos will go negative pitch. This will only last for like halve a second. Also, this is not always the case: in 50% of the reconnects this happens.

When I disconnect just the signal wire and then reconnect it again, nothing happens and the motor keeps running. The servos donít hick-up. I have done this countless times and there is no effect on motor or servos. That be gewd!

When I disconnect the signal wire from the 4651T and disconnect the 9745 satellite, the helicopter runs for about another second and then spools down. Once I reconnect the satellite or 4651T it spools up again.

Since the only negative effect occurs when the 4651T is powered down and powered up again, this scenario seems an issue anyways because this would mean that your BEC would not deliver any power to any of the other components as well. Your fbl would have shut down too. I think the only realistic scenario is canceling out a signal from the 4651T and if you lose that signal and get it back and nothing happens; everything is fine.

Happy I did these tests, but Iíll keep monitoring otherís results.


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Last edited by Fusion; 03-10-2021 at 01:45 AM..
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Old 03-17-2021, 01:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Will check into this asap, looks to be an issue on multiple fc/fbl systems from what I have seen so far.
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Old 03-17-2021, 10:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thank you, Brian.

Don
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Old 04-20-2021, 02:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianbremer View Post
Will check into this asap, looks to be an issue on multiple fc/fbl systems from what I have seen so far.

Thank you so much for looking into this Brian. Is there any update on this? Flying season has started and a lot of people use the 4651T. I know of two rc enthusiasts who keep their 4651T equipped birds grounded until itís clear whatís going on.


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Old 04-21-2021, 01:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I would also like an update on this.
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Old 04-22-2021, 10:10 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Per the issue initially reported within this thread, I was able to reproduce and capture the issue of the throttle going low based on physically disconnecting and re-connecting the srxl2 remote during operation.

The low throttle commands did not occur on every disconnect/connect cycle and I was unable to reproduce the issue based on a fade or hold condition. Based on my testing the throttle low commands only occurred during the cold start (power on initialization) of the srxl2 remote receiver.

I provided the information that I had found (sans the cold start determination) to the remote firmware developer and he was able to identify the issue leading to the intermittent low throttle commands I was running into. I am currently bench testing updated firmware now that address this specific issue.

I confirmed with the developer that this could only occur during a cold start which matched my earlier testing determination.

For the specific issue mentioned here in this thread to occur in flight you would have to experience a power system brown out or a remote power brownout (aka damaged cable).

Although the disconnect/re-connect bench test mentioned here produced similar results (throttle cut) to what occurred in the other thread it does not necessarily mean this test "duplicates" what occurred in flight on the other models being discussed unless that model experienced a brown out due to the power system or a damaged remote cable.

There is a lot going on in the other thread referenced in the original post here. There is one case mentioned where the fbl controller reported a "coldstart" per the log in flight, it is possible the coldstart could of been due to a power system brown out and in that case the issue might be related to the issue mentioned here but it would depend on how that fbl controller handles a coldstart during operation issue.

I also do not know the internals of how msh handles the srxl2 remotes failsafe packets or the handling of the failsafe determination within the fbl unit itself.

In the case of the fc6250hx open stock since it is using a mix of older remotes and srxl2 remotes the fc6250hx is handling the failsafe determination and failsafe throttle position. If no remote packets are received for a period of 2 seconds failsafe is activated and the throttle is driven to the Fwdprg->Setup->Throttle->Failsafe position and all other inputs hold the last position. Once a single remote packet arrives the failsafe is deactivated.

Per the fc6250hx if a power system brownout should occur the fc6250hx will cold start and is fully initialized and up and running in under 1/2 of a second under all conditions. Once remote packet data is received the throttle is driven to the received value.

Per the remote updated firmware mentioned above, I will continue bench testing and regression testing in work models however I will not be updating remotes in my personal model until the regression testing has been completed.

For those that disagree with my decision to continue flying the prior firmware keep in mind in the case of the fc6250hx you can operate the system using the older dsmx remotes, the srxl2 remote is only needed for telemetry and forward programming.

Keep in mind for the specific issue mentioned here in this thread to occur in flight you would have to experience a power system brown out or a remote power brownout (aka damaged cable), in addition to those conditions, the issue does not occur every time.
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Last edited by brianbremer; 04-22-2021 at 12:31 PM..
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Old 04-22-2021, 11:14 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Thank you. I am continuing to fly my 4651T equipped helis and will do so until the update is available and when the weather improves. Take care.

Don
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