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Old 07-09-2021, 11:39 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post

Test is insultingly easy, and free.
Registration in $5 every 3 years.
This is entirely intentional, as the goal is to collect data.
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Old 07-11-2021, 04:09 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I am the president of our club. I did the $5 FAA thing years ago although I never put my numbers on anything I fly. A very small percentage of our club did, maybe 5% at most.

We will not require taking of this test...or ANYTHING else that comes up. Our field is private property that is in the middle of nowhere except for farm fields.

Unfortunately our club has less flying these days and I honestly don't know how much longer it will even exist.
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Old 07-11-2021, 04:55 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
The point of the AMA, from the FAA's point of view, is to have a handle on modelers. They tell the AMAs insurance company to make the AMA mandate something, the AMA will mandate it and the clubs will follow right along.
And there is the rub. The FAA has no right to tell the AMA to have a "handle on modelers". This is not, nor was it ever, a charter of the AMA. The AMA has NO authority to "govern" modelers. The AMA is to support the hobby not control its practitioners.

In the beginning the AMA was simply a contest rules organization and spokes group for modelers. Later, the AMA offered insurance as a way to encourage and grow our hobby. It soon became obvious that because the AMA was insuring modelers and their craft that some rules and limitations were necessary. For instance, as models became larger, there needed to be a limit on what was being covered. That is where the 50lb. limit came from. Some rules were needed so that insurance premiums could be kept reasonably low.

Notice in all this, that at no point was the AMA or its insurance ever intended to be leveraged as tool for enforcing new FAA rules. Again, to suggest that somehow the AMA and its local clubs are responsible for compliance with new FAA mandates is completely misguided.
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Old 07-11-2021, 11:25 PM   #44 (permalink)
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This is entirely intentional, as the goal is to collect data.
I have a driver's license, am a military veteran, hold two pilot certificates, and am a licensed radio operator. I think they already have all the data thy need
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Old 07-12-2021, 01:37 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mrowka View Post
This is entirely intentional, as the goal is to collect data.
Did you participate in the 2020 US Census?
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Old 07-12-2021, 05:00 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Certainly a different perspective this side of the pond. If it weren't for the BMFA the CAA regulations would of looked very different.

It was probably the data from the insurance company that pointed out to the CAA the excellent record radio control modellers have in the UK.
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Old 07-12-2021, 05:10 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I agree Sandy - when I look at the high-handed attitude at play in the U.S., I think that we here in the U.K. have a great deal to be thankful for. The BMFA has conducted itself extremely well in protecting the best interests of the members and the CAA has displayed a sensible and entirely pragmatic approach to the issue.

I think that is why there has been no real resistance to the regulations here. Everyone I know has paid the small fee, done the simple online test/forced reading exercise and are happily out flying, much as before
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Old 07-12-2021, 05:45 AM   #48 (permalink)
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the trouble in the USA is that you can never be certain which corporation paid for the new regulations to appear and why. Its almost never about the people as we don't have enough money. Perhaps you guys don't allow bribes ... I mean campaign donations to your elected folk over there? There is an entire professional group of people whose entire purpose is bribing ... I mean donating to the campaigns of our congress critters over here. They are called "lobbyists".
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Old 07-12-2021, 07:07 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Did you participate in the 2020 US Census?
Yes. You all but have to.

Based on the census count, seats in our House of Representative are allocated. There are 435 seats doled out in proportion to a state's population. The Constitutions stipulates a count will be made every 10 years. Sadly, it does not make it clear that only a count of US citizens will be considered. The piratical offshoot of that is that New York's, California's, Florida's, etc massive illegal alien population leads to them holding a disproportionate number of seats in the House of Representatives. By "rigging" a census, California is able to rig every vote in the House for the next 10 years.

Sooo.... technically you don't have to partake in the census - but you will be under-represented in our federal government on every vote for a decade.
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Old 07-12-2021, 07:49 AM   #50 (permalink)
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It is a legal requirement to complete a census form here in the UK - I thought that the same was true in the States. I still think it is, in fact, although apparently no one has ever been prosecuted for non-compliance.

Don't worry, we have the odd party funding scandal here in the UK too although I don't think that it quite as prevalent as it is on your side of the pond. If it is, then they are more adept at concealing it...... which wouldn't come as any great surprise. You know a politician is lying to you the moment their lips start moving!
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Old 07-12-2021, 08:54 AM   #51 (permalink)
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It is a legal requirement to complete a census form here in the UK - I thought that the same was true in the States. I still think it is, in fact, although apparently no one has ever been prosecuted for non-compliance.
After more reading, I stand corrected. I believe it is a requirement to partake in the US census. I did not know that.

I will add, someone a lot like me, but not me, has at times in the past refused to be counted in the census. He was not arrested or fined.
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Old 07-12-2021, 10:45 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
I have a driver's license, am a military veteran, hold two pilot certificates, and am a licensed radio operator. I think they already have all the data thy need
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone7 View Post
Did you participate in the 2020 US Census?
Depends on what data. For instance, a list of radio operators who participated in the census doesn't offer much data, if the data being sought is of persons who fly drones.
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Old 07-12-2021, 10:47 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wjvail View Post
And there is the rub. The FAA has no right to tell the AMA to have a "handle on modelers". This is not, nor was it ever, a charter of the AMA. The AMA has NO authority to "govern" modelers. The AMA is to support the hobby not control its practitioners.

In the beginning the AMA was simply a contest rules organization and spokes group for modelers. Later, the AMA offered insurance as a way to encourage and grow our hobby. It soon became obvious that because the AMA was insuring modelers and their craft that some rules and limitations were necessary. For instance, as models became larger, there needed to be a limit on what was being covered. That is where the 50lb. limit came from. Some rules were needed so that insurance premiums could be kept reasonably low.

Notice in all this, that at no point was the AMA or its insurance ever intended to be leveraged as tool for enforcing new FAA rules. Again, to suggest that somehow the AMA and its local clubs are responsible for compliance with new FAA mandates is completely misguided.
Government agencies often delegate rulemaking and enforcement authority to private bodies.

The North American Securities Administrators Association being the first example to come to mind.
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Old 07-12-2021, 10:15 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjvail View Post
The AMA is to support the hobby not control its practitioners.
The current AMA leadership seemed to want to, but on their own terms rather than the FAAs. The FAA wasn't interested in that, but it still sees the AMA as a convenient handle on flyers.

Quote:
Later, the AMA offered insurance as a way to encourage and grow our hobby. It soon became obvious that because the AMA was insuring modelers and their craft that some rules and limitations were necessary.
That was their downfall. Once they provided insurance, satisfying the insurance company became their top priority, whether they wanted that or not.

Quote:
Notice in all this, that at no point was the AMA or its insurance ever intended to be leveraged as tool for enforcing new FAA rules.
Their intent doesn't matter; once the leverage is in place (in the form of insurance requirements or requirements to be an AMA member to fly), it can be used. No need to convince modelers of anything if you can convince clubs. No need to convince clubs if you can convince the AMA. No need to even convince the AMA board if you can convince its underwriters. And they care only about risk and liability, cold equations which the FAA can set the terms on.
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Old 07-12-2021, 11:34 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Except the FAA has absolutely NO authority to make law.

Regardless of what anyone says.

That's why Robert A Taylor prevailed in his lawsuit against the FAA.

Look it up if you don't believe it.

Just more bureaucracy that infringes on our rights to enjoy our
hobby.

If some idiots act in a manner that is against the law(flying close to
full scale aircraft, etc.), that is not our fault.

It is solely the fault of the offenders.

And we should not be held responsible in ANY way by these AMA
and FAA gonads.

They should pay more attention to...say Boeing 737 Max's...for instance.
And other incidents that cause a myriad of fatalities seen almost
monthly as a result of civilian aircraft mishaps.

Oh no....let's blame responsible modelers for whatever perceived mishaps
that could happen...and which to date have caused no casualties.

And like their $5 is some stupid test is going to solve the problems.

What a joke.

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Old 07-13-2021, 05:47 AM   #56 (permalink)
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I'm glad my club claims to require AMA but no one has ever asked me for proof of my membership. No matter, its a public park anyway in the middle of nowhere (strange I know) that no one but us uses for the most part. If they were to kick me out, I could just fly next to the field in the part of the park that they don't rent
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Old 07-13-2021, 07:05 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Now there's a curiosity in itself, being rented something that is public.

So in theory a whole bunch of folk can pitch up right where you fly?

Being careful and having 3rd party liability insurance in case something should happen is a good idea no matter where you fly or who provides that cover.
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Old 07-13-2021, 07:35 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Now there's a curiosity in itself, being rented something that is public.

So in theory a whole bunch of folk can pitch up right where you fly?

Being careful and having 3rd party liability insurance in case something should happen is a good idea no matter where you fly or who provides that cover.
I'm not sure. We actually do rent the spot. I suppose though that people could technically? I doubt we would call the police or anything and if we asked them to move to another spot and they refused we wouldn't do anything I don't think. So yea, I suppose people could troll us

I am an AMA member. Was just commenting that my club, though they require it, don't seem to check.
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Old 07-13-2021, 12:40 PM   #59 (permalink)
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You'd be surprised how much "public" land is owned by municipalities.

These municipalities can't use the land, bought by the actions of the local politicians for their grandiose plans, for anything because of zoning restrictions, flooding, etc....that weren't considered by these civil serpents.

So these municipalities rent the land to a variety of people....in our case, our flying club field.

Houses cannot be built nearby because of flood waters when it rains hard, for example....so there will be no "encroachment".

The major plus side of this, in spite of occasional flooding...is that our club dues are very cheap...$50/year. Grass runway 100' x 600'.

This might be a good way for people to "organize" and try to get a club field for cheap renting.

Just saying.
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Old 07-13-2021, 12:51 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Our park Department land owner requires AMA, FAA registration and I'm certain TRUST will be added.
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