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Newbies: Tips and Information Section of HF, specifically for Passing along info to newcomers to the hobby. Setup, tweaking, orientation practice, etc.


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Old 07-31-2021, 09:19 AM   #21 (permalink)
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This is just a reminder that only one heli hardly is enough :-)

Because of several circumstances I now have three K110 Bnf helis.

Even those are not enough as two have damaged servo gears (1-2 servos) and the first one has a tail motor which is not reliable anymore.

Which basically means three repairs and being grounded.

4-5 micro Bnf helis might be better if you try out something new.

If you just hover around and for normal flying curves on the 230s more carefully you might be OK with just one heli if you don't push over the limit hard (inverted, backwards, funnels,...).

The 230s also has rescue.
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Old 07-31-2021, 09:28 AM   #22 (permalink)
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But if you crash the 230s you probably have to replace 2-3 weaker cyclic servo gears (metal != Titanium, Mg != Mg from one vendor compared to the next).

I heard the Spektrum H3050 servos (and probably their successors too??) will not withstand a crash too well.
Some guys replace them with something different the next time.

Example:
My Spektrum H3060 tail servo has a quite weak bottom plate plastic case so when you unscrew it this alone will generate some damage on the servo chassis :-(

Because of 3s and higher weight the 230s is not a crash bomb proof CP heli anymore.

Use stability mode / rescue or throttle hold wisley.

..(...)..


So far I am pretty much impressed how much damage a 60g K110 micro can actually take.
Better than my 30g Nano before.

All the plastic is quite good!

Servo gears for the cyclics are only plastic, but can withstand hits for a longer time quite good.

I just had not much luck the last two times and hit the absolute wrong point on the field (small route trail is quite hard, no higher grass) from the wrong angle.

I constantly try to push over my limits...

Can't believe I started flying backwards on the K110 last year with the bigger K120 tail prop

Backwards inverted is fun too.

Want to go back to funnels like I did on the NanoCpx years ago...
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Old 07-31-2021, 11:17 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robinbanks View Post
Well, I've ordered this, it ships in 3 days!!! *excite*:


https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/...lybarless-belt


I'm assuming since the packing list doesn't say anything about a transmitter, and the description doesn't say ANYTHING about the supported standard, that it's a BNF model, drop in your own Rx and you're off to the races, amicorrect? So this should be the perfect job for my flysky Tx/Rx combo?
The X360 is a very nice clone of the Gaui X3, its a nice kit. It flies just fine on 3s for a beginner to intermediate flier, you do not need to go 6s at all. You'll need servos, esc and a FBL. For servos, Emax ES09 or even ES08 ($9-12 USD) will do for cyclic, and their 9257 clone is good enough for tail. Anything cheaper than those will cause you lots of headaches and not fly as crisp. Towerpro digitals are ok, but they are fragile and loosey goosey. If you can, go for KST-215s, they are twice the price of the Emax but you won't be fixing servos after each crash. For an ESC, as a beginner you can get away with using a used one, if you ask, lots of guys have Align escs they replace with something better, but it will be fine. For a motor, a Gartt 3700kv or Turnigy 2218 will be plenty for a beginner, they run about $10-15.

For FBL, its tough to make a recommendation. The cheap approach is a clone like the Kbar or TGZ-380, but they don't have self level and bailout, an option for a beginner that is totally worth the extra $50, it'll pay for itself the first crash.
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Old 08-01-2021, 10:27 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakky View Post
The X360 is a very nice clone of the Gaui X3, its a nice kit.

What about screws? Are they crappy or good?

Can you unscrew the frame again without damage on the screw heads?

What about the spindle / feathering shaft?
Is it ok as it is given or do you have to experiment around to eliminate any slop or go back to original Gaui X3?

I once read a thread here on Helifreak from a member who changed everything inside the blade holders "to make it right / fit" or how load forces were distributed with all the different type of outer, inner and race bearings and rings (Scheiben).
Whatever their correct English names are...

I have no experience with the X360.

The B4503D just sucked with head after disassembly and how to put it again together correctly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yakky View Post
It flies just fine on 3s for a beginner to intermediate flier, you do not need to go 6s at all.
The earlier Blade 360 (can't remember its name right now) or later Blade Fusion 360 also was available as a 3s version with a different motor/esc combo.

But didn't it just swing 350mm main blades, not 360-380?!


Quote:
Originally Posted by yakky View Post
You'll need servos, esc and a FBL.
A Hobbywing Platinum 45-60A is a bit more expensive.


https://www.hobbywingdirect.com/prod...nt=12446633924

Alzrc offers two Esc options.
Going back to 3s might need an Esc with slightly more max. Ampere power than going the 6s route.

My B4503D has a 3s Elite which is about 40-45A.
But I only swing 325mm blades.

Maybe a 60A fits the frame.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yakky View Post
For an ESC, as a beginner you can get away with using a used one, if you ask, lots of guys have Align escs they replace with something better, but it will be fine.
My Elite Esc does not even have a Governor.
For hovering it around no problem.

Just adjust the throttle to a V-throttle curve.
I even ran a 5x 73% fixed throttle curve without the gov.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yakky View Post
For a motor, a Gartt 3700kv or Turnigy 2218 will be plenty for a beginner, they run about $10-15.
That is the point.
You need the correct kv for 3s.
Alzrc offers their motor combo for lower kv which requires 6s I guess.

I heard most cheap Escs also have problems if you go lower than 65-75% (or much lower like 50) throttle for a longer time?!

Better might be 85% throttle and the right gearing for this type of setup and the proper kv.

In German: Volllast vs Teillastbetrieb.

Don't overheat the Esc or Bec!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by yakky View Post
For FBL, its tough to make a recommendation. The cheap approach is a clone like the Kbar or TGZ-380, but they don't have self level and bailout, an option for a beginner that is totally worth the extra $50, it'll pay for itself the first crash.
Hint: For the Kbar you need the original Mikado setup software to be able to configure it.

It is not only a "clone" but the hardware spec / firmware is stolen from them from older vbar devices.

As you said it already,.... there are much newer Fbl system units out there with more features.

I wouldn't be surprised personally if you can't download the original Mikado software (you have to register) or can't get the Kbar flashed properly (only servo/swash and tail settings; not newer vbar firmware which is of course forbidden to do).
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Last edited by Thomas.Heiss; 08-01-2021 at 11:42 AM.. Reason: link to HW Platinum series
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Old 08-01-2021, 11:07 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I exactly know what I went through on my own (as a programmer and IT professional), with the LHS and a friend to get started with CP helis and fixing things on the NanoCpx or tuning transmitter model values.


Alone the soldering job with a telemetry adapter cable on the 450er Blade heli and two different type of plugs (blue Eflite Ec3 vs red UltraDeans) stopped the flying project / maiden flight for a while.

Took me weeks to get going.

Wouldn't have had the nerves for the full servo/swashplate leveling and head (blade tracking, balancing main blades) all on my own...not in the beginning.

I can promise you that this X360 kit is going to be a "winter project" for a longer time, if you have to start from scratch.

Your focus will shift onto building, setup, programming, etc.

But surely not flying.
My Blade 450 Bnf heli had its maiden 2.5-3 months after.

If you want to fly from August to October this season get something different or smaller in parallel.

Just my honest impression about this hobby and reflecting my own experiences.

Even after ~9 years there is so much to learn with new Flybarless system and bidirectional receivers or Escs.

You need to master all of that with this first time kit build.

Good luck (and fun). You'll need it, definitely.
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Old 08-01-2021, 11:34 AM   #26 (permalink)
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The screws and hardware are very nice on the X360. I had a lot of issues with my genuine X3 as far as parts fit.

3s is plenty with the right motor. The RCG thread on the X360 has a guy doing some awesome 3D on 3s. Mine is on 3s as well, I do not lack power.

And on the kbar, the original software can be found, you need 5.3.
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Old 08-01-2021, 11:44 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Here is the link to Hobbywing Platinum heli series:

https://www.hobbywingdirect.com/prod...nt=12446633924

Before V4 there existed a V3 series with 40-50A.

You may not need this stuff with governor immediately.
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Old 08-01-2021, 11:48 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I still have kinda four new 3s 2,200mah lipos but with a broken B450 no heli in the next weeks to fly :-(

(I guess this was it this season.... other stuff going on in personal life)

No nerves for a rebuild.

Do you need a bigger 3s size for the X360?

Maybe I can fix one of the K110 pool, hopefully.
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Last edited by Thomas.Heiss; 08-01-2021 at 12:46 PM..
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Old 08-01-2021, 12:45 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Another thing about the mysterious Fasttech shop website.

According to links in the footer is just some catalog, not a real dealer.
So something like Alieexpress?

Had not made a good experience with an AE dealer...it was fake so I had to request refunds after waiting for so many weeks.
When I wrote back they did not understand a single English word, always replied with OK, had given me a fake shipping number later (second time) and it took soooo long to get any response.
Now you know why.

I put the X360 into the Fasttech cart but have not found any info from the real dealer (dropshipper??) in the background before finishing it.

Weird.
What company is now shipping to you? From where?

Would probably have made more sense to visit the Alzrc company on their Alieexpress homepage and maybe order from them directly if you really want this kit.

You need a good vendor so you can tell them when something is missing, broken or you need additional support.

Banggood IMHO neither can really provide this.

There is nothing in Canada? Wow...
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Old 08-01-2021, 03:47 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas.Heiss View Post
I still have kinda four new 3s 2,200mah lipos but with a broken B450 no heli in the next weeks to fly :-(

(I guess this was it this season.... other stuff going on in personal life)

No nerves for a rebuild.

Do you need a bigger 3s size for the X360?

Maybe I can fix one of the K110 pool, hopefully.

I fly on crappy Turnigy 2200s, 20c, they're old but the YEP governor does a nice job of masking that. But I don't fly hard, just sport.

This guy on the other hand....

Alzrc x360 3s 3700kv (5 min 0 sec)
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Old 08-16-2021, 09:22 PM   #31 (permalink)
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My life as a disabled persons, while also raising a pug puppy and kitten just 3 weeks apart in age has been a glorious handful.


I've settled on an XK K130 RTF I found on Walmart's site. Quick question, if I dislike the included remote, does anyone know if it's possible to install the flysky 6ch I already have and use the remote I'm familiar with from simming with my FS i6x?
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Old 08-17-2021, 01:38 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas.Heiss View Post


According to links in the footer is just some catalog, not a real dealer.
So something like Alieexpress?


it was fake so I had to request refunds after waiting for so many weeks.
What company is now shipping to you? From where?

There is nothing in Canada? Wow...

FT stocks a limited number of everything in one of their 3 warehouses (US, Germany, Shenzhen) if it says "In Stock" on the product info page. If it says anything else, they have a deal with the manuf. and you can often get a better price with free shipping than you would get from the manuf. directly. Always add coupon code MAP to your cart, never know what diamond you might dig up. Example: I ordered an expensive piece of pot smoking hardware from them priced at $120CAD, after MAP code just $57!


FT does sell fakes but they do their best to seperate real from fake. Always check the item name to see if it says "Authentic [Manuf.] [Item]" or "[Manuf.] Styled [Item]" (the latter being fakes). If you do somehow get a fake you didn't want, CS speaks english, and is very helpful, they don't make you jump thru hoops, just send a pic of what's wrong then work out if you send it back for full refund or keep it and get a partial refund. They even pay return ship if you want full refund (you have to pay up front but they reimburse you the shipping when they refund you upon receiving the return)


And no, nothing in Canada it seems, unfortunately
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Old 08-17-2021, 05:38 AM   #33 (permalink)
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IMHO you can't fly any of the XK helis with a very different transmitter like Flysky.

Any smaller micro heli with a single board means it already incorporates the receiver (e.g. Futaba S-Fhss).

Also there is no space for a separate FBL unit or a full Flysky receiver box.

Too heavy.
As I said, this is more a suitable receiver for bigger planes

Alternatives are helis which support a separate Spektrum satellite (Dsmx) over a single wire cable (6+ channels).
No idea if the XK 130 supports this too.
The Fbl/board must support this connector port (like Omphobby M1).

But: Spektrum Dsmx != Flysky

..(...)..

To be honest, I heard nothing good about the two Xk 120-130 heli models.

Lot's of problems what I read so far...

Eachine helis also might have some issues so you want to wait for the V2 or V3 or a new heli model which finally fixes what the community has found out.

There is no other way to check long rcgroup threads or read all available HF threads.

Why not a XK 110? It simply works and crashes well.

..(...)..


450/360-380 helis are the minimum to be able to mount full receivers, even then the space is quite limited (Spektrum TM1100 doesn't fit well).

My B4503D heli had a much smaller receiver Spektrum ar6115e and the Ar8000 had to be put sideways inside the frame.

I will probably install the Tarot Zyx Fbl on the top gyro platform mount for the tail (better gyro chips than the old and outdated Eflite gyro).

You may want to seek for a true multi-protocol radio or how to mount an external Hf module over PPM (Dsc/trainer plug).

Not sure why you have got the Flysky transmitter for helis when you don't have the right models.
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Old 08-17-2021, 06:07 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robinbanks View Post
I already have several small, indoor helis. My goal here is to have something bigger that will handle outdoors better than my little guys.
I can imagine the XK 110 doesn't truly fit your "outdoor requirement" because of its smaller size.
But flies so well, including wind.

But you don't want to crash K120 / K130 anymore!!

Why not a newer Omp M1 with a different transmitter (once again not Flysky protocol)?
Or a Blade 230s?

..(...)..

Btw: Do you already know how to fly collective pitch helis (very different to coax or stabi helis like Blade Msr)?

Which indoor models do you have? Nanocpx/S2/S3? Inductrix quad?

For a beginner it is not a good idea to fly CP helis indoors!
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Old 08-17-2021, 04:50 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I have a nano cpx and a bin full of coax, and about 10k worth of DJI equipment (phantom 4, Mavic 2 pro, mavic 2 zoom, dji spark, mavic air 2, 2 smart controllers, etc)
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Old 08-17-2021, 04:51 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I went for something that said it has full 6 axis and 3 axis for 3d flight so I could learn CP outdoors better, after watching alot of youtube and seeing many people saying the 6axis mode is great for 1st time outdoors with CP
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Old 08-17-2021, 11:41 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Ok, great.
You have some experience with the NanoCpx without any Safe stuff (As3x).
I have now some hope for you

Should have prepared you well for bigger CP helis.

You don't need 6G mode anymore if you can fly circle 8s with the Nano which is quite squirrelly. Really not.

K110 6G or Blade Inductrix blue stability mode is fine if it works, the heli or quad is correctly calibrated, hover trim flight, etc. and no swashplates tilts or the heli drifts away.

- On the XK the foam pad sometimes is too wobbly.
- Harder pads don't work well with 6G.
- Too wobbly / movable by hand into all directions easily means not so well locked in, not the best tail hold, etc.

On a V5 board I couldn't get the 6G mode to work, on V6 boards it worked with the soft pad to dampen any vibrations but in the meantime I have changed pads and invested quite some time to remount the receiver/Fbl boards perfectly level.
Quite tricky...

Quite funny, a hard M3 pad from my LHS worked once on V5 but the other two V6 helis were unflyable even in 3G mode.
I was forced to change again the foam pad to something else, even there were no head vibrations.

If you can fly the Nano and other helis in SIMs I would not want to go back.

Only wanted it for rescue...but if the 6G mode is improperly working the K110 will quickly fly away, faster than you can hit the throttle cut / hold switch.

Once it flew off from the green field, passed me and crashed hard onto the wood street / concrete parking area just because of this stupid 6G mode.
Cost me an Esc and receiver board as the top 101Inductor was damaged and later I grilled the RX board while wanting to measure 3.3v on the bottom but hit the wrong pad points :-)

You get the idea why you need to forget about 6G.

Also the swashplate levelling needs to be done with pushrods and servohorn 90 degree mounting in 3g mode only.
You must be able to hover the heli first without such stability stuff.
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Last edited by Thomas.Heiss; 08-17-2021 at 11:55 PM..
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Old 08-17-2021, 11:48 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Do yourself a favor and get rid of all Coaxes.

The old Blade 120sr corrupted my Cp game completely.

You will unlearn the real CP stuff from the SIM and NanoCpx and train again the wrong reflexes.

Get an Inductrix quad or similar for indoors which supports a red agility/acro mode for CP-like flying.
Or a custom quad with Silverware/NFE firmware FCs.

And once again, you need a different transmitter to fly Spektrum Dsmx and Bayang protocol.
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Old 08-20-2021, 02:00 AM   #39 (permalink)
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See my comment here about stability mode: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=8355077

Only you can answer for yourself Robin if you feel you can do without it especially on heli models which have a bit more weight (Omp M1, Blade 230s, 3s+, even 100-150g on 2s will make a difference over 1s 60g how well they crash).
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Old 08-20-2021, 10:59 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Default The long journey...

Well, my 3 batt. RTF XK K130 has officially begun the arduous journey from Shenzhen. The delivery standard that has been quoted puts its arrival some time between Aug. 31 and Sept. 3, leaving plenty of time for things to take longer than expected before my b-day on Sept. 22. If it needs more than almost 20 days of "buffer time", well, lets just say I'll be quite angry come the 22nd! I'm reasonably competent at Social Engineering though, so if it DOES go that far past the delivery standard you can bet your butt I'm gonna be contacting the seller and getting some freebies!


"My birthday RUINED!!! And all because you LIED about how fast you could get it here! If you'd been HONEST I could have ordered it months ago, and actually had my present ON MY BIRTHDAY!!! You know what would help me deal with the overwhelming disappointment? If you, I dunno, could throw in a backup canopy and some extra props and gears... And if you feel REALLY bad, maybe some replacement servos too?"


Or something along those lines ;D
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Enter Helicopter #3 type and equipment.
Helicopter #4
Enter Helicopter #4 type and equipment.

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