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Old 11-12-2021, 04:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Throttle Hover

The manual says to set the throttle hover above the hover throttle setting and the default is 65. My throttle curves are set in the Castle ESC Governor. My transmitter says my throttle setting in Normal is 0 to -40 and in stunt 1 is 40.
What should I set the throttle Hover in the FC6250HX?
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Old 11-12-2021, 07:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I would set it to 45 so that when you takeoff, the anti-rollover algorithms will be in effect. I no longer use Set RPM and use Governor High (or is it low?) and use a curve to a flat line for Spool Up at 30%, then a flat line for Hover Maneuvers and takeoff. The line is set at 52% and my Throttle-Hover is set to 54%. I then have two more speed settings for Casual flight and Aerobatics. I have another scale helicopter setup but with different ground idle settings, however, the Throttle-Hover is set just higher than my Hover takeoff setting.

You don't need to be as elaborate as I have done but make sure that your takeoff throttle setting is lower than your Throttle-Hover percentage setting. I am not sure that I would want to try any aerobatics with the takeoff hover algorithms in place.

Don
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Old 11-12-2021, 07:15 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The thing I failed to ask is how you have your ESC setup? Is it Set RPM with three RPM settings, Governor Low, or Governor High? In Set RPM, I have gone with their recommendations and kept to 30, 70, and 100 for the three speed settings. I use that for the simplest of setups and if that is what you are using, I would change your 40 lines to 30 and set your Throttle-Hover to 35%. But it would help to hear what you are using.

Don
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Old 11-12-2021, 07:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Hi Don, Thanks for the feedback. My throttle settings were made by another flyer by setting the Castle RPM settings. All I know is the Normal throttle is 0 at low stick and -40 in 2,3,4,&5 positions. Stunt one is +40,40,40,40,&40. Stunt 2 is +70,70,70,70,70. For takeoff my throttle setting does not go above -40. On the surface, I would think if I set my throttle hover at say 10 I would not have the mitigation in stunt1 or stunt 2. I am planning to do a maiden on it tomorrow. For now I left it at the default 65. What do you recommend.
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Old 11-12-2021, 07:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Don, I thought I would input a little more info for you opinion. I am a novice and I always take off and land in normal mode. I turned safe off in normal as the fear of taking off in "self level" was learned last year. I do have safe on in stunt1 and 2 and Hold. I also set up bail out. Until I get better I like self level so my plan was to take off in normal and mechanically do whatever trim I need for a relatively stationary hover. Then try stunt 1 with safe. Do you know if I can turn the safe down but keep it on and still do loops and rolls?
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Old 11-13-2021, 10:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Don't change the Throttle-Hover to 10, it will not be good. You need to understand that the idea behind this is to remove the Flight Algorithms from the Normal (or takeoff) Mode to prevent unwanted correction to the rotor disk. You need to get into the programming of your Castle and find out what settings that fellow has done. YOU need to know what is going on in your helicopter.

For argument's sake, let's say that he has programmed three different RPM settings. He would have to have known the KV of the motor, the poles, the voltage of the batteries, and the gear ratio. Stuff you should know as well. With those numbers, he set three different RPMs and chose the throttle setting to put them at. I have used 30% for Normal, 70% for Idle 1, and 100% for Idle 2.

For the operation of the Throttle Hover, you DON'T want Idle 1 to be the same setting as Normal. There should be a difference in the settings for the Throttle Hover system to work. You have yet to say what helicopter size this is so I can't give you suggestions about where to set your RPMs.

SAFE is an angle limiting flight mode and cannot be setup to allow loops or rolls. That's the entire reason for SAFE. It prevents you from getting your helicopter upside down. The Panic switch is always available regardless of whether SAFE is on or off.

I would NOT maiden this until you have set a different RPM setting for Normal and Idle 1.

Don
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Old 11-13-2021, 11:54 AM   #7 (permalink)
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from the manual;


19. Select Throttle Hover This setting is the throttle point where your model hovers in normal mode, mainly during takeoff and landing. The flight controller applies special anti roll over algorithms at or below the throttle setting, helping to make takeoffs and landings easier. The Stunt 1 and Stunt 2 throttle curves should be above the hover throttle setting to ensure the roll over mitigation is disabled in flight.

During the initial setup, you can set Throttle Hover to a high value and test the model. Once the throttle setting is determined for hovering in normal mode, set the Hover Throttle value.
------------------


If ever in doubt set it to 100% and the model will drift slightly (mainly noticed with some wind), you can fly aerobatics in this case as well.


I would need to know your esc settings, model and other information before tackling the esc setup.



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Old 11-13-2021, 03:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Brian,

Is the Hover Throttle setting only active in Normal Mode or is it determined by the throttle percentage that you program, regardless of mode?

Don
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Old 11-13-2021, 05:47 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks for the input. I left the hover throttle at 65 and safe off in normal mode. Take off was smooth and I did a trim flight and landed successfully. I also learned that you dont want safe mode in hold. On my second landing I was almost down and hit hold and the helli flipped over instantly. I then turned safe off in all FM. Fortunately it only broke a ball link. My throttle curve is 30% in Normal, 70% in stunt 1, and 100% in stunt 2. The ESC was set up with a castle link based on motor speed, and pinion but I dont have a windows computer so I cant tell you what those blade RPM's are. The helli is a Gaui X5. I wish you could use castle link with a Mac computer. My current plans are to leave throttle hover at 65 and do some mild flying to gain confidence and then try safe in stunt one. I have been learning on Blade 230S v2's and in stunt 1 I have a low safe setting and can do loops. Can you reduce the safe level so you get some stability and yet still loop? Why can the Blade take off and land with safe and you cant with the Gaui x5 and FC6250HX?
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Old 11-13-2021, 08:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Taking off with a helicopter in any Self-Levelling Mode has a bad tendency to flip the helicopter if the landing gear or tail fin get caught in the ground foliage. It will want to correct the attitude the tilting imparts which in many cases creates a very fast correction that you can't anticipate. SAFE is a form of self-levelling as well as an attitude limiter. If you takeoff from a semi-smooth surface, you might be able to get away with having SAFE on but I generally turn it off in Normal Mode and only introduce it in Idle 1. The student I currently have has no SAFE in Normal and Idle 1 and is only has it in Idle 2 once he gets to the point that he can fly in circuits and figure "8"s. Normal and Idle 1 are the same throttle speeds. His helicopter is also a Blade 230S Smart with the throttle set around 2500 rpm. Good for stability but not too aggressive. Take care.

Don
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Old 11-13-2021, 09:37 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Don. I talked to a friend of mine tonight who has 2 Gaui X3's with the 6250's. He says he had a problem until he was careful to initialize in safe mode, hold off and with the helli on a level surface. He has safe on in Normal and stunt 2 so if he gets in trouble in stunt 1 he goes into safe either way he flips the FM switch. Since I was planning to fly w/o safe until I got it trimmed out as recommended in the videos I didn't think about the fact I was initializing in hold with safe on and the heli was on a picnic table and may not have been level. Do you think this is why it flipped when I went in hold? It was not stuck in the grass as I was not all the way down when I switched to hold. Also the videos dont talk about calibrating the FBL until the section on safe. Since I was not planning to fly on safe, I did not calibrate. I really want to get at least some stabilization and now am scared to turn safe on at all. With the Blades you adjust safe with the gyro setting in the FM,s. From memory default on the DX9 is 100,0,-100. I am flying 100,50,-100 and still have stability in stunt 1 @50 but can still loop. Can I leave safe off with the 6250 but increase the stability by cranking the gyro up in stunt1?

Last edited by dickarthur; 11-14-2021 at 07:34 AM.. Reason: Correcting some errors
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Old 11-14-2021, 10:08 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I am seeing what Brian replies to my question as that is kind of important. However, the calibration should be done regardless of what mode you are flying in. That basically gives the gyro its level setting. I think that the gyro may have some initial level calibration done but I am not sure that this information is accurate. I don't know what you are referring to with the numbers at all.

AS3X will not prevent you from doing aerobatics as it is the system that gives the gyro its stabilization to prevent uncommanded movements caused by wind. SAFE is what will prevent you from being able to pull a loop or aileron roll. Its default is usually 45 degrees roll and 30 degrees pitch. It's good to hear that your test flight went well but I would wait to hear from Brian before doing any more tuning. Take care.

Don

PS: I initialize all my helicopters, regardless of gyro, in Hold. Doing anything else will eventually lead to an accidental spool up.
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Old 11-14-2021, 02:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Don, When you initialize the 6250 in hold and I assume Normal mode, do you have safe on in either normal or hold? Have you had success with safe? When I turn safe on I get (on the bench) major right roll on the swash. I know there is suppose to be some but there is a lot. When safe is off my swash is level. I want to get some stick time in safe but am afraid to turn it on. The numbers I reported for the Blade 230s are the switch B (FM) on my DX9. The defaults are 100,0,-100. I found that setting them at 100,50,45 I get safe in normal, some stabilization in stunt 1 but can still loop. On the Gaui X5 with 6250 they are H-(-100), Normal (-50), Stunt 1 (0), and Stunt2 (50). My question is can I change them and get more stabilization without going into safe mode? ie Normal (-100) Stunt 1 (-50). I hope this makes sense.
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Old 11-14-2021, 08:29 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I don't have an answer for you as I never use SAFE in Normal. I have the transmitter in HOLD when I plug in the receiver battery or the flight battery. I don't recommend the settings you have. The Flight Modes are 100, 0. -100 and no other values. I have no idea where you would ever get an idea to use those but I am telling you now that you should change them back to stock. You also just answered why I said that many manufacturers don't recommend any self-levelling turned on while taking off. Maybe just wait for Brian to pipe in as I am not liking what I see you're writing. Let him set things straight.

Don
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Old 11-16-2021, 05:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Since you are running castle 65% hover throttle works since it is below 70% stunt 1. Just needs to be at or above normal mode throttle and below stunt 1 throttle.


FMode channel of -100 Hold, -50 Normal, 0 Stunt 1 and 50 Stunt 2 are correct. If you enable stunt 3 then it is 100. This only determines which gains are used, also allows you to enable stability mode per flight mode. For initial setup I (and the manual) recommends against using FMode Channel until the model is flying well, this helps to reduce the # of gains you have to adjust.



Don, the throttle hover determines if you are in normal mode or not. Not everyone uses the FMode channel (or have a spare channel in some cases).


Per the manual, setup and get the model flying well before considering stability setup. Per the manual, at a safe altitude, test the panic function with quick press and release of the panic button to ensure it is working correctly on your model.



The calibration is performed at the factory, as mentioned in the manual notes if you notice any drift in agility modes or find stability does not return to level perform the calibration again and re-test.


It does not matter what flight mode you are in during initialization, it also does not matter if the heli is still, upright, inverted or if it is being moved. The system is initialized and ready to fly in under 1/4 of a second after power up.


Follow the manual and keep the setup simple for now. Once the model is flying well you can take a look at enabling stability in normal mode if you want but save that for later and after you have confidence in the panic recovery working correctly.
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Old 11-16-2021, 08:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Brian, Thanks for the response. It is great that you and Horizon support this kind of help. It is also appreciated that volunteer, experienced, pilots like Don help us with these new electronics. I have flown RC planes since 1969 but was getting bored and so wanted the challenge of hellis. Unfortunately, until the Blade 230 S V2 came along, all I did was crash, repair and repeat. Now I am finally making some progress but setting up 500 size helicopters can be intimidating and a challenge for sure. Without help it would be almost impossible.
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Old 11-16-2021, 10:58 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Thanks Brian,

I think I have it straight now so that if the Throttle Hover is set to 55, as in my example, any throttle setting below that would have the special algorithms for takeoff set to on, regardless of what switch position it is. I have this for a setup; Normal is set to 30 with a ramp up from zero. FM1 is set to 52, FM2 is set to 59, and FM3 is set to 66. I don't lift the helicopter off, under normal circumstances, when in Normal as it is only to "set" the blades for higher speed spool-up. I then finish spooling up in FM1 and takeoff to do hovering maneuvers. I should have asked this a long time ago. Thanks.

Don
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Old 11-16-2021, 11:03 PM   #18 (permalink)
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As a Post Script, I now know what the values for the FM channel are and I should have clued in earlier. Those numbers are now set to memory. Thanks to Tom and Brian for that.

Don
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Old 11-17-2021, 10:06 AM   #19 (permalink)
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At or below the throttle hover setting enables the take off stuff. The take off stuff just helps a little, on or off the model can still be rolled over during takeoff. Keep the disc level to the ground during takeoff and only make small corrections to do so.

The values are the defaults in the tx, unless you change them they are correct when you assign the channel to flight mode in the transmitter.

Don, why 2 modes for take off and not set normal throttle to ramp to 45, set throttle hover to 45, take off in normal and then switch to stunt 1 for hovering maneuvers? You would have greater stability in stunt 1 and you would have fewer switches to deal with.
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Old 11-17-2021, 10:37 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Thanks Brian,

In the past, I have been guilty of forgetting to switch into Idle1 after takeoff and ending un pulling a loop or dropping altitude with the collective and triggering the ESC cutoff. I never have been comfortable with having a flatline low rpm setting for Normal, which is popular for 3D, and then using the Hold switch as the startup for the motor. It has always screamed "Accident about to happen".

Our field is not very level and in many cases I have to find a spot where I can set the tail off the ground to allow no interference when spooling up with my 800. We have two taxiways that I can set it on but this last time I got lazy and didn't make sure that the tail was completely off the ground. You learn real fast that taking shortcuts never pays off and this cost me over 400 to get it back in the air, not including as yet unordered canopy.

Effectively, what I wanted was two "Normal" modes so I could spin up the blades and set them, then have the actual takeoff in Idle1. That is why I asked if the algorithms are based on Flight Mode or Throttle Hover settings. Switching is really simple in my case, Switch "A" is the fourth flight mode and I have also re-assigned their priority in the Flight Mode Setup page so that if I forget to switch "A" to off and I flip the "B" switch from Idle 2 to Idle1, it does not drop to Normal. That can unnerving hearing the rpm drop from 1600 to 1000. Hope this kind of explains what my plan has been. Take care.

Don
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